Malnois Breeders - Page 2

The first thing I would suggest you do is start meeting Malinois.  As many as you can.   Don't just watch them working on the field, see if you can interact with them off the field to, after all you are going to live with the dog, not just work it.  And start keeping notes about what you do and don't like about the dogs.  When possible, find out the lines the dogs are from.

There are a number of variations in lines, and also in what different breeders produce.  If you do a little "hands on" research you will start to see trends.  If not in a specific line that you keep being drawn to, at least in a specific style of dog.  Big, small, highly reactive, less reactive, balanced drive, leaning towards 1 drive, social, aloof, anti-social, etc.  That will help you narrow down what breeder(s) you should be talking to regarding pups.

NVBK, KNPV, French Ring, etc lines all work well, but they do work differently.  In general, but it's not perfectly cut and dried.  There a French kennels, so you would assume "French lines", that are based heavily on NVBK dogs.  And others that aren't.  

The following is total generalities, you will find dogs in each group that aren't even close to what I'm describing LOL

The French dogs tend to be medium sized, more reactive dogs, fast, intelligent, and biddable.  That's the type of dog that French Ring rewards, dogs with the character to do the work, but also the athletic ability to do some pretty difficult jumps, the biddability to have IMMEDIATE outs off a decoy who is fighting them, and a mental clarity to not loose themselves in the fight.  Grips can range from excellent to just enough to hang on, since it's not scored in the competitions.  Size tends to be medium since the medium dogs are faster then the big dogs, but the smaller dogs can be physically over powered by the decoys.

The Belgian dogs tend to be larger, more "brute" type dogs with high drives, full grips (it's judged in BR), medium reactivity, obedient but not what I would considering high biddability.  Environmentally solid.  The BR dogs have similar jumps to the FR dogs, but the decoys don't esquive so the dogs don't have to have the quickness (turning ability, not how fast they are on a straight run) of the FR dogs.  In BR even the lower level dogs do all the exercises, so the BR dogs tend to start competing a little later, since it takes awhile to get the dog ready for the full program, also BR levels go 3 to 1, not 1 to 3 like most sports.

First thing to point out with the KNPV dogs is most of them are mix breeds, the fawn ones are called Malinois, the brindles are called Dutch Shepherds.  And most don't have FCI pedigrees.  Of the groups I've seen the biggest variation in these dogs, with some having excellent grips and some having very poor grips.  Temperaments have ranged quite a bit from hard to soft, biddable to f'you.  One thing they tend to have in common is kamikazee entries and larger size, with solid bodies that can take the impacts.   They also usually carry good aggression.  This would be my last pick group for Sch though, for a variety of reasons.  The paperwork is one, but I also think you will generally find better choices in the French and Belgian dogs. 

I like a dog that is a combination of FR and BR lines, with a little KNPV thrown in :-)  Get the speed and reactivity, plus the biddability of the FR dogs, the gripping the BR dogs are known for, and the kamikazee high flying entries the KNPV dogs have. 

What does "esquive" mean? I never heard that before. 

Esquive means sidestep or dodge. 

Thanks! 

Where do you reside? I would second Ivan. If you are interested in schutzhund, I'd consider a pup from him. Also, there is a guy named Mohawk John that used to breed with Ivan. He has some nice dogs. I think he is in kentucky now. You seem a bit green. Usually people enter into Sch with a piece of garbage and have to replace their dog after they realize that they don't have the tools for the sport. I'd follow what others have said and go learn, not only the breed, but the sport. Learn what is needed and expected, study the sport and dogs. But like I said, you sound green, but you're a step ahead if you listen to 10% of the people on here. GOOD LUCK! Oh and say goodbye to your life as you know it.

As stated an "esquive" is to side step or dodge the dog.  The purpose being to take away all the dogs forward momentum, so when they turn around to come back for the bite, the decoy is right there, with the pressure on, and the dog has to come through the pressure to the bite through their character, not the speed they built up while running down the field.  Some dogs, once that forward momentum has been taken away, will look at the pressure in front of them and hesitate or even say "no thanks".

Just wondering why a Malinois- it's a good question to answer.  You want a dog you can work with and live with, and it's more than just saying "ok the parents have these titles, or are these lines, so pick this one" You can't just separate them by general "lines" like that, KNVP, Belgian, etc, too broad to say these small details like which will be good with kids-- that depends on the individual dog and more specific to the breeding (parents) not just the general lines.  I have 3 Malinois (one is from KNVP dutch imported parents, one is French, one Belgian) and they are each very different, the one thing they have in common is high drive and born to bite.  I like the French lines, but I look for the total package, I may be able to help you with specific questions, feel free to PM me 

Here is my dogs grandfather http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/dogs/belgian_malinois/pedigree/729146.html  FR lines, Am I happy with her, yes, she is a fantastic dog and very fun.  Unlike GSDs, with Mals you will see brood bitches not titled.  I would want to see parents in person before deciding to just blindly buy a puppy, and like I said it's the total package, including conformation I don't buy this bs that since Mals are a working dog it doesn't matter what they look like, and it's not unheard of for them to have HD so must have x-rays on parents and a written puppy gurantee you are satisfied with, always have someone look over the contract for you, and find a breeder who really knows their lines and can explain the dogs to you, but remember breeders want to sell their puppies so of course to them they are the best in the world.  So you have to learn more to make a fair decision.

This was also asked not too long ago on the Mal section and I answered it, http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/dogs/belgian_malinois/forum/37859.html?pagen=1#45219

I'm in the Dallas-Fort Worth area of Texas.  And I am very green.  I thought about doing schutzhund with the shepherd I have now a couple months after I got her.  Then I realized she was NOT suited for it.  xD  Right now I'm really just trying to do my research on the breed and find out what it is I would want.  I probably wont get a Malnois for a few years.  Just trying to do my homework. :) 

I will be getting a malinois next year or so as well.  Its good you are doing your home work. Find what dogs, lines you like and look around. Working-dog.eu is a great site to join and they have listing of upcoming breeding around the world.  Their are some good mals here in the US. The two well know kennels in the US are Ot Vitosha and Loups du Soleil are not always the logical choice. Plenty or other nice kennels out their as well.  For example Ivan sells his pups for 2k for that price I can import a pup from Europe and still be cheaper.