Is this correct bite work? - Page 2

Thank you very much Yoshy!
I did see the pushing the sleeve into the dog and it was easy to see the dogs were very green, not a clue what the sleeve was for.
I would love to see more pics, vid or info on this subject if anyone cares to share.
I would love if someone could share with me the differences in training for PPD, Police etc.
As well as what works for them or doesn't. Especially when working different levels and mentalities of the dogs.

You people are mean.

I'll have to fire up the main PC, then upload the first time my Mal was sent after the sleeve with another person. 1/2 way there she noticed me with the camera and thought twice about the dude and sleeve. I was the only one she ever bit the sleeve with and her first time with someone else she didn't want any parts of it. LOL  I learned not to send her from such a far distance her first time with someone else ... I think that's why she ended up just circling the dude.

I thought it was a fun moment anyhows. At least she didn't come to me and the camera  ...  I know she wanted too... Gezzzzzzz

I'm planting a memorial today intown for a child that was killed on his bicycle a year ago tommorrow. But I'll be sure to contribute a "if anything" fun moment while training my dog. Just one quick clip though. LOL

I think an agitator should learn from an experienced helper before just winging it. That is really the first time I ever saw anybody slip a sleeve COVER rather than a sleeve; in addition, shoving a sleeve down a dog's throat many times is NOT the same thing as agitating and making a dog want to bite. If I were a dog, it'd just make me learn how to duck.

And this from a person who has never once put on a sleeve. I've just never seen any of the vid's "techniques" used in the real world. I have been to some helper seminars, though, just to watch. I think maybe this guy would benefit from such seminars. It's a lot trickier than it looks to a beginner. It's not just about jumping around with one fat arm; there is a lot of dog reading and dog psychology involved. It takes TRAINING. 

I'm not being mean, I'm just sayin'. Learn from a master.

Personally, I think its a shame and a waste of money to acquire these supposingly nice looking dogs and think its possible to get by with poor training.  The bitework clip towards the end of the video clearly showed the inappropriate pressure placed on the dog.  If not for leash, the dog would have been chased off!  It is so destroying to potentially ruin these dogs with such lack of understanding in bitework training.

There is no cheap substitute for training if the goal is to enter ones' dog into the Sieger Show (as depicted in the video).

the sleeve cover needs to be attached to the sleeve for starters.
next go on you tube and look up some training videos then compare the two

The man in the video said that  in his country they have no schutzhund, no breed surveys, no bitework, he compared his situation to playing poker blindfolded.  So I give him credit for trying,  and everybody has to start somewhere.  It would be great if he could import an experienced teaching helper, or send his helper out of country to learn, but that might not be feasible for economic or other reasons.

Sue you make some good points but I honestly think I could do better by watching a few dozen YouTube vids first.

Thank you Liesjers, and I agree that watching videos is a good idea,  I think experienced teaching helpers make the work look much easier than it really is.  Unfortunately I don't know that You Tube videos can teach the novice helper about  the intricacies of making attraction for the young dog,  developing  grips, how to keep a young dog in prey, nor how to move an older dog from prey to defense and back again, etc., and these things are most  important for a novice helper to learn.  These are some of the  reasons why we use only the most experienced and talented helpers on young dogs and puppies and teach novice helpers on experienced, seasoned dogs.    

I hope this man and his decoy don't get frustrated and quit.  His is a tall mountain to climb without any help.  I wonder if there are any  video training courses (worth their salt) for getting the novice helper started?

Of course you can't learn by videos but at least from videos I know that you don't "drive" a dog by leaning backwards, tugging on the sleeve, and lightly patting him with the end of your stick.  I give him credit for trying too but at the same time, why post such poor examples of work on the Internet?  If I'm working on something and not sure if it's correct or how to fix a problem I might make a video and share it privately first with my trainer(s) or someone experienced and ask for advice privately if I'm not able to meet in person for a while. It just looks more like an excuse, not just this video (I didn't have sound so I don't even know what that guy was saying) but a lot of "work" videos by show line kennels used to advertise the kennel and then when people give honest critiques it just turns into an excuse-fest about not having a good club, good helper, bla bla bla.  If that's the case then instead of spending $10000 or whatever to import a new breeding dog, send your helper somewhere for decent training or pay a good helper.

My husband has been getting started doing a little bit of helper work (with safe, experienced dogs) and our helper had him watch a longer video, I think on the USA site somewhere.  I also video him everytime he helps out so we can watch it back and he understands better what the helpers were telling him at the time.  He also does really basic stuff like practicing sleeve presentation, the footwork for drives, how to use the stick at home in front of a mirror without a dog (or I've been known to hang on the sleeve).

 ... so, do most trial helpers change a dog from prey to defense ? If that dog is trained and knows only prey .. what are the chances ? Who knows about this stuff ? Just wondering.