Opinions on this pedigree. - Page 2

Your assumption that showline breedings are just as good at working as working line breedings just because they have schutzhund titles is without merit. If this was true we would see many more showline dogs in the Nationals and many more showline dogs as police k9's and this is not the case. I have been training in sport and police work for 32 years and and have been breeding for this length of time also. Many years ago I felt that we should try to breed show x working and tried it many times and could never get what I was looking for. I owned a male in the 80's, Pele vom Arolser Holz who my wife placed 3rd in the EuropaMiesterSchaft in 1986. He was a great dog but never produced anything consistently. He had a few good dogs and many average dogs.  I was part of the problem as many breeders were. I believe if we are to be breeders that we need to try to better the breed and not just breed for a possible quality pup out of a litter. The show and working lines have diverged significantly over the past 20-30 years, much more so than in the early 80's and late 70's and trying to cross them has created many animals not worth breeding to. As for certifying hips and elbows, at least those of us that do this are trying to limit the disasterous effects that these issues cause to our breed. It may take many years to show effect but it is worth it for us taking the time and making the effort to help limit the health issues affecting our breed today. .

IF, IF and thats a BIG IF, I were to breed these two, my goal would be to try to produce a working dog with correct conformation, that is a little lower keyed and not as hyper. In other words, a working dog while not working is NOT out chasing his tail or running a fence line or constantly barking because he is in over drive with nothing to do or no where to go.  I have seen so many working line GSDs that seem to be in fast forward. I have noticed that the showline GSDs still are able to get the IPO, SchH, FH, and HGH, and so on, titles and are also alble to get SG< V< and VA ratings in conformation. Just my Opinion.

As for the hip certificaton... The male has been prelimb before imported here. He is not 2yrs old to be able to get OFA. The female is going to be six at the end of this year. I am waiting for her to come in heat anyday now. Her last two heats she was not bred. Now, because of her age is the reason  why I can't wait to breed her. Her being so close to coming in heat the reason for not getting her certified. I just got this bitch very recently. Thats why she is not certified. She's been xrayed, but not certified. Even if she they were certified, a person can not guareentee there will be no HD.  A breeder can only warrantee should there be a HD problem.

Now please don't make this turn around to be labled as I don't OFA or don't agree with it. I am just stating my case on these as to why they are not Certified.

JFYI, both these dogs have very strong controllable nerves, very outgoing , easy to handle, and GREAT temperaments. The male is a tad bit more laid back than my girl, but she is kinda a fast forward type. I think  it be awesome to achieve a litter thats in the middle of these two...with both parents smarts.

How long have you had this bitch?

Not sure what this question has to do with original post but I'll answer it anyway..Maybe a month. She was due to come in heat right after I got her, but she still hasnt yet. Just starting noticing swelling now. Guess the move set her back....

If showline dogs can't work, how did they, or how do they get their titiles. Are they trialed a different way from the workingline dogs?

nonacona,

If showline dogs can't work, how did they, or how do they get their titles. Are they trialed a different way from the workingline dogs?

 Some show line  dogs can still work and do a nice job.  Although, most are not to the level of most good working line dogs.  And some show line dogs are trialed differently than working dogs, but that is a whole other discussion.   


Jim

 "In other words, a working dog while not working is NOT out chasing his tail or running a fence line or constantly barking because he is in over drive with nothing to do or no where to go. I have seen so many working line GSDs that seem to be in fast forward. "

I only ever had one dog like that, and it was a showline.  My workinglines have been very easy to train, with good drives, but not the whackyness.  

Thanks Slamdunc, I am sure it is lot more to it than what you just tried to explain. We'll just leave it at that. My point was, showline dogs can work and  earn their titles just like the working line dogs. I realize the working ability of the showline dog may not be as intense as the working line, but they still can get the job done, and not everyone wants an intense working dog, just a dog that can get the job done.THANKS SO MUCH!!

Redsable, I've seem that in both lines but  more often in working lines...But I an mot wanting to start an arguement, about whats better or worse. Please read the original post, and thats all I wanted to know. Others have added what they wanted to turn the original post into a Work vs show topic.. I didn't...So I Won't be responding to this off topic anymore.. Any opinions about the POSSIBLE pedgree as I ORIGINALLY post will be welcome. I did not ask for opinions of what I should or should not do, only about the pedigree. Maybe you guys could go back to that original question. Anything else, I really am not interested in...I respect other opinions, but they mean nothing to me unless I specifically ask for it.

IMHO I it think show/work crosses have the potential to create great dogs but who ever does it needs to know  A LOT about the dogs they are pairing so they can figure out what they will be producing.  Maybe I'm way off base here but from the sound of your answers all you know about the female is how much you paid for her and that she is about to come in to season. 

What is the purpose / goal / plan behind this breeding?
Having a litter yes of course but are you just going to cross your fingers and hope they turn out ok? 
And quite frankly they probably will be decent but what are you going to do if they are not? 

Sorry I strayed from the OT -
Back to your origianl question what do I think of the ped, its alraight but nothing about it makes me want to do a back flip. 
Is it a breeding I would do myself or  would want to buy a puppy out of?  NO & NO but maybe you know of or see something about it that is important to your program....  What is it about this ped that interests you?

Showline dogs are bred for their good looks and working line dogs are bred for their good working ability. That doesn't mean that there aren't good-working show dogs and good-looking working dogs--just that the priorities of the people who created those dogs differ.

It's a bit like the difference between a Mercedes 4-door sedan and a Mercedes sports car. They can both probably go over 120 miles an hour, but they feel very different while doing so, have different top-speed capacity, and different handling capabilities at that speed.

As far as that breeding for that female... If you're going to take a working line bitch to a show male, go to a *GOOD* example of the show dog--a dog who has proven himself healthwise, temperamentally, and with some modicum of working ability. If you are the owner of a bitch, you have your choice of thousands of stud dogs. That pool of candidates may be limited geographically, but then, you still should pick the very best candidate out of your options. Is the best candidate an untitled, un-health checked male? Proximity does not the best candidate make. If you don't have the hip certs on mom (I understand the reasons you have to not want to do xrays right now), wouldn't it be a good thing to make sure the sire is as proven as possible?

As far as taking this bitch to show lines--I think you need to define clearly your goals for the breeding and whether the bloodlines of whatever dog you pick will help you meet the goals of that breeding. Will it be likely to produce healthy, sound, sane dogs who will be good representatives of the breed and who will have a good likelihood of living happy and productive lives whether as pets or working prospects? Will you be able to find them good homes, or will potential buyers who are looking for the type of dog you are trying to produce be turned off by the fact that neither parent is titled or hip certified?

Christine