Wow You Never Know Who your Dealing With - Page 2

If you are like me, you already know where these people live.
There is no law against driving by and having a look.
Take a camera, video camera even better, and a witness.
Then you will have a better idea of who you are dealing with.
His ISP would be interested in the e-mail as well.

I would have no further correspondents with this asshole.


Moons.

I am sorry you are having such a horrid time and I do hope that your female is well and you get to at least see her good luck
Rosey

Ghostly-----That email sounds utterly ridiculous and over the top. The person who originally contacted you might not even be the person you sold her to.  You might have emailed the actual owner....thus the response  Sounds more like a vendetta, scam, or just plain nastiness from someone who feels injured by you.  Just a thought.  I'd check out the legitimacy of the dog owner as well as the email account.  Good luck. 

As listed on the WDA website:


Michael West

21314 N. Feucht Rd.

Princeville, IL 61559

309-385-4419

mlwest@npoint.net

OK Ghostly you may not like this answer but read most of the threads and scanned all.  The reactions as usual are pretty well all over the board. Let's look at what we know from this situation and then we deal with assumptions.

FACTS: 

1. Call from wife wanting refund on a 2 yr old GSD due to "mild" aggressive behavior toward daughter. (I did not notice age of daughter.)
2. You told wife you would refund money, but she had to surrender dog. - Wife got upset.
3. You tried to set an appt. with the wife w/ daughter present to evaluate if there really is aggression (sent email to that effect)
4. Few days passed nothing was heard from customer so you sent a second email asking once again for her and her daughter to be present so you could evaluate the dog.  Since they were unhappy and you were trying in good faith to please them.
5. Then You received an upsetting email that threatening bodily harm from her husband whom had not been involved with this complaint transaction until now.  He states that he has contacted an individual he identifies a Mark W (West we assume).

ACTIONS:

1. PROTECT YOURSELF: you did right by calling the Sheriff 
2. You or your Attorney call Mark West: I don't know him but if someone attached my name to such a document all hell would break loose.  I'm not losing my integrity over such crap.
3. This man that sent you a very threatening and harmful email, in my opinion, has opened the door for there to be an investigation by two different agencies: 
4. If the daughter is a minor then DHS should be contacted grounds being: the maliciousness and violence of the threats in the email, if he will do this to you he will to his wife or child 
5. With a temper like his what will he do to a dog that "growls" at his child, or if he just has a bad day (why is the dog acting aggressive?) I would too around a bully like this guy. Call Animal Control of to foster the dog until it is sorted out.

This is why I stopped wanting anything to do with the puppy-buying public. Too many psychos out there, and most people are fine, but one like this will ruin your attitude in a hurry. Some of them are animal rights / anti-breeding activists, posing as "normal" families who have been disappointed in a puppy purchase... "victims" of a "greedy" breeder!  They try to come in under the lemon law precedents and statutes. I have had a situation just like the one you are talking about, minus some small details and without the threat of physical harm. But, they definitely wanted to escalate and did threaten to "shut me down". I got no less than SEVEN visits from animal control, none of which turned up anything.. But, that doesn't mean that someone won't lie, if they are under pressure or given sufficient incentive.

Think all cops are nice and ethical? Oh, don't I wish! We just had one in S. California who "allegedly" car-jacked, abducted and raped a female, "allegedly" assisted by a California state parole officer (who "allegedly" accompanied him). His big mistake? He "allegedly" left his service revolver (complete with traceable serial number) in the victim's car. Oops! Needless to say, this would be the extreme, but it is not so uncommon for civil liberties and public trust to be violated in many smaller ways by people with career ambitions and pressures. Busting pet breeders / sellers has become very fashionable, now. MANY breeders have been raided and shut down, and it all started with a complainant. It always does! That's how our system is set up, now.

To me, selling puppies to the public is a lot like playing Russian Roulette. It's not a matter of "if", but "when". A lot of it comes down to the state you live in.. the statutes on the books, the court decisions (precedents) and the political climate. In California, it's downright dangerous to deal with the public. The courts tend to go against you in civil court, and worse, public prosecutors who are ostensibly influenced by animal rights lobbyists like to take these cases on under "public interest" arguments, trying to make a case against private breeders under consumer fraud and animal cruelty charges. Certain states are hot spots. Pennsylvania has been one such for a long time, now. Texas is surprisingly a hot spot, too.. There's a school of law there with a big animal rights department and they push for these kinds of cases to be made.

Too many breeders do not realize all of this.. The word has been out for a long time, now, but I think they don't want to believe it could ever happen to them. They prefer to think that when people are charged, they really did something to bring it on themselves.. Yeah.. It's called "breeding dogs". That, to most AR activists, is a cardinal sin. And, they are working hard to bring it all to a complete halt.. Some want to see an end to the hypothetical "overpopulation" problem, and others want to kill the competition so that shelters can realize the dream of "no kill". Still others apparently see more regulations and laws as a way to build more law enforcement revenue and empire. Breeders sort of twist in the wind, with little or no help.. lucky if stones are not thrown at them by the mob.

DO NOT engage these people, again. Do not escalate.. Keep records of everything, and if you have too many dogs, you might think about placing some and getting all your ducks in a row. While a call to Mike might be comforting to you, I would not take too much comfort in anything said to reassure you. Keep your eyes open, your gates and doors closed and locked, post "no trespassing" signs conspicuiously, and if anyone wants to come in and look at your premises and dogs, do not allow them in without a war

<continued> .. do not allow them in without a warrant, signed by a judge. If you let them in just to take a look, you have forfeited your fourth ammendment rights and cannot claim them back, later on.

I do not really support ACLU. but it would behoove you to go download their checklist of what to do and NOT to do when under investigation by law enforcement. Law enforcement can and WILL lie to you, and it is completely legal, by US Supreme Court decision. They can also use your own words against you and are known to twist them and take them out of context.. if not outright lying.

Apologies to the law enforcement people out there. I've seen them looking at their shoes when this sort of thing was brought up, but you know the truth.. How many have the real courage to do the right thing and tell it? Most look the other way.

So, I don't want to scare you, kiddo, but I don't want you to get blind-sided, either. Better be careful, and don't let down your guard. All breeders need to think in these terms, today. Dog breeding has been made a huge political issue by special interest groups and their lobbyists, and they are VERY powerful and influential. They are looking to get breeders into court, because that's how they can make case law. Case law requires "conflict and controversy".. real parties with real issues, no hypothetical arguments, per se. So, they ARE looking for complainants. When I was selling to the public, I almost always erred on the side of caution and refunded. It doesn't seem fair, but if you do that, it's really hard for them to claim that they were damaged and invoke the help of the DA's office, and consumer protection laws. If you do make a settlement, be sure that you stipulate that you admit no fault.

Reading some of the other comments, I have to say that I think you need to just document everything, avoid contact and do not escalate in any way. I'm not sure that the husband's comments could be construed as threats, per se. He has a right to protect his home and family, if he feels they are under threat. Stay away from that place and forget about the dog. It's a lost cause, at best. You do NOT want to be seen in the area, as that may be construed as stalking.

If you talk to anyone, you might talk to an attorney. It'll cost you and it may not be much help, but you may not get much from the Sheriff's office, either. Keep it simple and factual and document everything. An attorney's letter, settling the matter while admitting no fault may be the way to go. Painful, but I always believed in dealing with problems before they got out of hand, when it came to customers. I seldom had a problem, but it can happen to anyone, and will if you deal with enough people.

By the way, it is not uncommon for bitches to get a little bit squirrely at this age. FYI. Some people are ALWAYS squirrely. If anything, it gets worse with age? You can't fix them. Let it go and get this behind you. So often, in a fight, the biggest losers are the people who don't know how to negotiate and settle, and who say "I know MY rights, and no one does me like THIS!".... There's no shame in settling. It's the smart thing to do. But, don't try to contact them, yourself. If you do, go through an attorney. That way, they can't say you threatened them or used deceptive tactics.