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by VomMarischal on 05 January 2010 - 00:01
by Prager on 05 January 2010 - 02:01
I know that it is hard to select the person which would provide you with the type of the dog which you have heard about, everybody claims to have them, but then you hear the horror stories. Recently many people got themselves on a bandwagon of Czech dogs . Czech dogs were made famous by "z Pohranicni straze" (z Ps) lines. Now there are many Czech lines which will not come even close to these famous lines. There are Czech extreme sport lines , show lines and copycats of z Pohranicni straze lines and then there are other lines. I am getting sick to hear about TOP Czech working lines which are bred with lesser or greater success for generations in Nebraska, Timbuktu or Slovakia without any input form people who created these lines. Some of these "top Czech z Ps dogs " have one z Pohranicni straze (z Ps)dog in 7th generation or so. ( In all fairness some people buy matched breeding pair from us and then they have the right to such claim for that pair or brood bitch bred by us and then sold in whelp to them.)
I would like to state here directly and without any hesitation that:
1. Nobody can provide you consistently with this type of a dog except us. AlpineK9 and Jinopo. Rest are just copying us. Please keep in mind that you do not get superior dog by just breeding superior male and female or one zPs dog to another zPs female. Which is what is done here in USA and elsewhere with great expectation of z Ps dogs production. That is why most breeders fail to produce quality dogs on continuous basis and periodically must come back to Europe and "refresh " their blood. Superior dogs of "z Pohranicni straze" type are created by dovetailing complimentary pedigrees which is based on thorough knowledge of ALL dogs on the pedigree. There are not many people in the world who have such knowledge. Here in USA there is just about nobody who has the thorough knowledge of these "z Pohranicni straze" and other dogs. We do.
2. Breeding
Our bloodlines are produced and supervised by me together with my friend and the creator of the z Pohranicni straze blood line and in the spirit of these dogs.. NOBODY else can say that without us being able to successfully argue that point. Other breeders are just TRYING to copy us in order to get on the bandwagon of the reputation of our tremendous dogs.
Others are just copying us and subsequently killing the line.
. Some better then others, but nobody produces the original like we do.
For the sake of z Ps line.
Prager Hans
http://www.alpinek9.com
by VomMarischal on 05 January 2010 - 02:01
by Prager on 05 January 2010 - 02:01
That is OK. But what chops my hide are the people claiming old style Czech dogs and do not have anything even closely resembling it.
Prager Hans
by VomMarischal on 05 January 2010 - 02:01
by darylehret on 05 January 2010 - 05:01
What recent dogs from Jinopo would you consider "old style" czech dogs? I only ask because none really come to mind that I can think of. Who, specifically do you think is trying to duplicate that? My newest import is from the czech republik, but is predominantly of west german sporting lines, although has a "zPS" dog is in the second generation. I don't know that I'll ever want a full german dog, or czech dog. Where it's born seems about as important as it's color.
by Prager on 05 January 2010 - 19:01
I am talking about the spirit in which these dogs are bred and by whom they are bred.
Would you call Chevy Corvette, Enzo Ferrari's Ferrari Italian style car? What I am against is when people breed, sometimes for generations, dogs which have one dog in their pedigree which is from old Czech lines and they call it "old Czech line pup". Also if you live in Nebraska for example do not call it a Czech dog unless parents were matched as a pair by a Czech breeder. Do not call it "z Pohanicni straze type" dog unless Jiri Novotny approved such breeding. I am not saying that you (or anybody) can not breed this or that with this or that, but do not call it ":Czech dog" if you are Slovak , Turk or Canadian. I'll say it again and this is important. You can not take 2, even excellent, Czech dogs and randomly put them together and expect you are going to produce consistently the same quality dogs for which Czech working dogs are known. For that you need to have thorough knowledge of the dogs on the pedigree, you need to know up front what they are going to produce and what they have had produced and what their litermates produced too and dogs and their litter mates of these dogs in the ancestry produced . You need to study the pedigree horizontally and vertically (Litter mates) and have a knowledge of it .
Also the production of the dogs depends on the culture and attitude of the people who produce them. Good example is a Doberman which was originally bred by a tax collector who was getting robbed on his collection trips from village to village. He said:"I am going to breed dog which can run next to a horse and will not be afraid of a man or a devil." Now compare it to today breeders which are usually bunch of blue haired Ladies who produce dogs with personality that of a lamb. That is the truth of GSD from Show and work , and W. German and Czech and US Back yard breeder vs "z Ps."
Jiri and I are trying to keep these lines going not necessarily only genetically, but mainly in the spirit of what these dogs used to be and most importntly, were intended to be. It is not important that many dogs in the pedigree are nor Czech or from z Ps lines, but they are in the spirit of these lines. Of course there is a development of the breed and I would like to say, the development is inching to the better. For example look at the old generations of the hips on the pedigrees. There were either no x rays at all or they were often and sometimes predominantly "Noch zugelassen" or what ever lower quality hips as long as they were not dysplastic. Now they are rarely if ever of such a low quality in at least 3 or often more generations. That is OK! We do not want to stay stuck on stupid and keep the good with the bad. But the spirit and attitude of the breeder is the same.
This is important to me in order to preserve all that. Thus the nomenclature must be clear and not confusing.
Prager Hans
http://www.alpinek9.com
by darylehret on 05 January 2010 - 20:01
by Prager on 05 January 2010 - 20:01
I would say in temerament and drive, yes or better.
Look dogs a like bucket of genes. We can recall within 2-3 generations what ever we want. For example I am pulling out some super hardness for AZ DOC now. General public can not handle these hard "old Style " dogs. But if you want to get them out of the genetic bucket so to speak, then you can.
Also the dogs back then were more raw so to speak. Now they are more refined in direction of what they wanted them to be even back then. That is mainly in uniformity of structure and ability of most to handle such dogs . The temperament should be the same within the statistical bell curve. Which means that there is a same qualitative variability but maybe not quantitative. In other words there are now more dogs slanted towards milder temperament which are easier to handle by most, but still able to perform the work of the raw dogs of the past ,.. that is if these dogs are trained properly.
Prager Hans
http://www.alpinek9.com
by darylehret on 06 January 2010 - 02:01
Very good explanation, thank you. For what kind of work, or who is purchasing most of the "old style" dogs you currently produce?
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