Something Different... - Page 2

+1 Snajper.

When I work in SCH club the decoy always ask me what do you want to do, the answer is simple challenge him/her chase her off the field. They always ask me why would I want this done to my dog and the answer is simple I want to see what the dog has. How many SCH people do the same? I would not get upset if the decoy chased my dog of the field I would be actually happy it would give me something to work on. The true test of a dog is in the challenge, if you can't find something that your dog can't do well every day it means that you don't do enough with your dog and you neither challenge your dog or know anything about your dog. I am always happy to see my dog fail at something because it gives us a chance to improve. Training for pattern is simple is the variation that makes or brakes the dog.

I talk with one handler/trainer he told me of a test that him and his friends did to their dogs at first I was why would I want to do something like that by now I understand. They suspended container field with few gallons of watter over a tunnel the dog was supposed to go through the tunnel and attack a decoy but while running through the tunnel they dropped 10 gallons right on the dog, out of the dogs tested that way every single one bailed and failed the exercise every single one except one. Now this is a true test of dogs character, true courage test. How many SCH dogs can do that? I for once know that my dog would bail  out like there is no tomorrow.

"When I work in SCH club the decoy always ask me what do you want to do, the answer is simple challenge him/her chase her off the field. "

Great way to teach your dog that running is an option. 

"Great way to teach your dog that running is an option"

My dog never runs ;) it's about knowing your dog Keith ;) if she would be young and week I would not do it, but at the level she is now she needs to be challange, this is how you improve. This is how you make your dog better, by finding her weeknesses and improving them. Sure if you train for points than you might have a point there ;) but I do not train my dog for points. I train her for her and mine benefit.

Plus I don't train with stupid crappy helpers, they know how my dog  is and know she can take pressure. You wont see them working other dogs their ways (well except their own).

I understand full well the value of using increasing pressure to bring out defense but when training a dog, especially a young one, a good helper reads the dog and backs off before the dog is run off the field.  Teaching a dog that flight is an option doesn't give you something to work on; it leaves you less to work with.

It's not a young one she been through a lot since 8 weeks old ;) I don't do it to a dog that is not ready, but once the dog is ready, yeah I will challenge it. Plus like I said my dog been on hidden sleeves, bite suites and was already through many different scenario, so she knows what she is expected to do and she dose it every time. I wonder if a bad guy will act the same as your decoy will stop once he challenges the dog enough ;) lol. Keith every game has it's end. She is at the end where the game stops and the real life starts. But once again if it's point you after than sure you can baby your dog. But real life is not predictable, and it tends to be hard. Plus Keith I don't know what kind of dogs you been around but I seen quite few in my life that even with minimum training you would not chase the dog of the field, most likely when trying you would actually get hurt not the dog. If my dog been worked the way she been since young age, and if she performs at the level she perform now, if you chase of the field than the dog is shitter period, wuss tactics of bringing the dog out in a dog slowly need to stop at some point. The dog either has it or it dose not. And that's how you tell if the dog is a good dog and not by points on the field with no real challenge to the dog. Keith I understand your point but you have pure sport out look for it. And sport tests the dogs only as much. Real life real challenge is where the test truly takes place. No points will substitute the real challenge.

Well, that certainly sounds all full of bravado and whatnot but it isn't consistent with how dogs are actually trained either for sport or for actual work.

"Well, that certainly sounds all full of bravado and whatnot but it isn't consistent with how dogs are actually trained either for sport or for actual work."

hmmm very interesting Keith, I trained with PPD people, SCH people, PSA people, and people that train dogs exclusively for security firms, military, and police, and I just can't agree with you. The only people that train the way you say are the one doing it for sports, while the other kind tends to put lots of pressure on the dog, and once the dog is "ready" and all the foundation and scenarios been worked through they usually when traing get very real with the dogs. Did you ever seen KNPV dogs and how they are handled? lots of these dogs are not babied in any way and treated harshly even by their handlers, let alone the decoys that work them. Obviously we not talking here about young inexperience dogs, but dogs that are train for a purpose. You trying to say that you can tell me everything you need to know about a given dog by the kind of training you do? no pressure wus treatment of a dog? I just don't see it happen, you don't know nothing about a dog till you reach the brake point period. Till than you just assume things, nothing else. Plus no dog learns through one bad experience like chasing it away of the field, same like no dog learns in one bite how to bite. If it would be true than there would be more screw up dogs out there than there is right now. If you would chase your dog away every day for a week than I can see how you teaching the dog to run away. Every dog during stressfully situation goes back to its foundation, if you have shitty foundation than you dog will fail. If the foundation is good there is no reason for the dog to be chased of the field, as in the foundation you teach to bite every time, so in stressful situation like the dog being challenged he should go back to its building block which transfers into a bite, if you screw up your foundation your dog will run away. Once again we not talking here about a dogs that had their work, and strong foundation laid out and completed. I am pretty sure that what you saying has its place but in fundation work, working with young dogs that you still working on and training to reach the level I am talking about.