color genetics - Page 2

My post was about a sable dog - not about black/tans - the toe/tarheel markings do not express the same in black/tans.  I am talking about sables only.  I have had many black/tans with no black on feet/legs that carry black recessive.  As I said - SABLES who carry black or bicolor will have toe marks/tarheels, no matter how faded the pigment is - the markings are there. 

I suggest to vonissk that your male has not been bred to a solid black or bicolor?  If he has black on feet/legs/toes I bet he is not sable/sable.

molly

This dog does have black toes - he does not carry black recessive, but did produce bicolors.



This dog has similar markings and does carry black recessive.



This dog is a known sable/sable - no black or bi or any other recessive.

This is another dog I know was sable/sable - only produced sables.  No black recessive (or bicolor) - just as dark sable as the two pictured above - but no toe marks or tarheels.  http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/13377.html

molly

I have to disagree on this one.  This female has the toes and tar heels.  Was bred to solid black and produced 8 sables.  She was also bred to sable and black and tan and produced only sables.

could be just chance - I bred a solid black to a sable, got 8 solid blacks.  Her next litter bred to black/tan with known black recessive - 100% black/tan puppies, no blacks.  Odds against that, by far - could be the sable genes just fell in place - all known (proven 100%) sable/sable dogs I've known have not had any black on toes or feet at all.  I could be wrong, still not convinced I am ;)  Anyone have any known (proven 100% by genetics/production) sable/sable dogs with black on the feet/toes?

molly

I'll bet money he carries bicolor recessive.  His littermates are bicolor - therefore it is in  his direct parental genes - his littermates inherited one black gene and one bi from two sable parents, to become bicolors - one parent carried black (if one of it's parents is black) and one carried bi (if it produced bi)  Chances are very good that he also inherited one sable (because he is a sable) and a bicolor from his parents then.  he just hasn't expressed it yet.  he doesn't carry black, but I'll bet he does carry bicolor.  Keep in touch about future litters bred to bl/tan or black - betcha I'm right.  As mentioned above - bet it's  how the genes fell, that he produced only sables so far.  he certainly isn't "for sure" sable/sable if both of his parents carried for other colors.

I would like to be proven wrong - any KNOWN sable/sable dogs with black toes/feet out there?

molly

Zidane vom Haus Sevens is a known sable/sable dog, and I'd say from the pictures I've seen he has tarheels and toe penciling.

This page has more pics of Zidane, some of which you can better see his toe marks and tarheels.

http://www.norrisnk9.com/Males.html