USCA. new admens, whats it really about? - Page 2

Kim:

             In your post you have just issued the problem brewing in the GSDCA-WDA The WDA goes by the SV standard and the GSDCA goes by the AKC standard. Now after the WDA.s usefullness at the 2013 WUSV trial who do you think is going to win out in this argument Dad or the kid? it,s really that simple.

You are right I would like to have it spelled out much better from USA since I,m still a member till April 2010

The USA has been working their butts off trying to work out a deal with the WDA and GSDCA, only to be stabbed in the back again and again. I am tired of the USA trying to work with people that don't want to give back the same effort. USA is the premier german shepherd and schutzhund organization in the United States. I for one will not let USA be back doored and pushed aside without a fight. I say get on board or get out of the way! I belive in the preservation of the German Shepherd Dog and it's working heritage, and their is only one club in the US that belives in that at this time, that is USA.

A deal on what specifically?  If its other than below, please enlighten everyone.

First, supposedly, and either side of USA and WDA are giving out different stories, Danny Spreitler when he thought WDA might be cut loose from GSDCA and would lose its abilitiy to host any SV venue, may or may not have approached USA about combining which was not an easy task - USA states he did just that, Spreitler states he was talking about the North American Working Dog Alliance.   And even if they combined, GSDCA would have just made a committee to replace WDA and continued on with fielding a WUSV team especially now that AKC will probably allow Schutzhund.  So where would that have gotten anybody?

GSDCA has never been in any discussions with USA regarding combining. 

The real discussion that took place for sure was about succession on the team if a dog gets injured or pulled and who sends what reserves and when those reserves take what vacated spot. 

Any discussion between any of the organziation about merging, combining etc. would have had to be done by board approval .  Not seeing that in anyone's minutes.  So were all acting without board approval? Or if by executive board approval, where have any boards approved discussions? 

So no one has tried to work out a deal to "preserve the breed as a working dog", breed to the WUSV standard to my knowledge. 

If USA was totally being altruistic about "the breed" - then they should tell everyone to join GSDCA, vote and put in breeding standards, vote to recognize the FCI standard only and put a stop to what is being held out as so offensive.  But it still would not stop AKC from registering dogs that had parents with FCI recognized registries.  And everyone seems to forget that FCI is not about to not recognize AKC as the United States registry - its about more than just GSD's - there is a lot of commerce in other breeds world wide - look at the big picture - there's alot more dogs than just GSD's in this whole equation.  Really don't think FCI is going to tell USA they are the recognized breed registry, not AKC,  and oh by the way, all other breeds be damned AKC is out. 

You can print your own money (meaning start your own registry), but that does not make it legal tender or have any value. The Emporer's New Clothes syndrome doesn't really help anyone. 

Bob -

There is no problem brewing between GSDCA and WDA regarding two differnt breed standards - honestly, they are only a few centimeters off once analyzed.  Its their judgeing style and preferences, I don't think GSDCA even breeds to their own standard - its much like all the over sized dogs in Germany and even here - people look the other way.  Ken Downing actually analyzed it and there are not much in differences. Again, whatever standard there is at any club - NO ONE IS PRECLUDED FROM BREEDING A BETTER DOG TO THE FCI STANDARD!  There is freedom of choice! 

And herein lies a good reason for everyone to belong to as many GSD organizations as possible - you learn alot and work through any misconceptions and go the route you like.  What club you belong to  and what people think your beleifs are is akin to racial profiling - people have preconceived notions/fears about that club and imediately you are labeled with certain misconceptions.

Like American type GSD's or not - GSDCA members feel very proud of their membership in WUSV - they were one of the first non-european members.  Honestly, they have no clue how far away they have gotten from the world standards, but I am seeing things slowly coming around - why because I belong to ALL GSD organizations that can guide the way of the breed. The fanciers cannot carry the club anymore and new people and at least 80% are participating in performance venues offered by AKC -  I can actually see more people with GSDCA converting to our type of dogs once they are really exposed to the WUSV venue.  You should see some of the postings about the NASS on the GSDCA chat board- a bunch are really impressed. especially about the dogs' temerments and pigment - you have to show people what is good and if its really good they will see it.  Just think once they see real working dogs - they are not blind. 

Anyway, I don't see them ever dumping their WUSV membership.  To comply with WUSV they will always have to comport either through a WDA like committee or WDA to WUSV standards with Koerungs, hips and elbows, SchH etc.  Its never been any GSDCA member's thought to get rid of WDA - sure, some GSDCA members have been royally hacked off at the new regime in WDA and there has been political posturing to take their toys and go home, but beleive me, they would have had their own sandbox in place had they severed themselves from WDA.  It has never been about breeding standards, its just been people pissed off at each other regarding control.

As it stands now, IF AKC votes to recognize Schutzhund it all stays the same  because any AKC breed club wanting to do it merely has to pick an exisiting expert organization to over see it for that club.  Obviously, GSDCA will choose WDA.  But that does not preclude any other breed club from choosing AWDF, USA, or DVG.

Both USA and GSDCA have the right to be in WUSV.  They both have their ups and downs, pros and cons.  I don't want to see the demise for either of them or even of WDA no more than I want to eat one flavor of ice cream, or wear the same clothes everyday.  I am not a for a WALMART take over of the mom and pop stores.  I think both USA and GSDCA and WDA need to exist as well as AWDF and DVG and all the other clubs people choose to belong to.  The fight over the team members needs to end - its affects a  very small part of the club membership but yet the whole membership has to pay for it. 

Pia DID NOT sell Johannes a dog. Period. Ukon was bought, owned and trained by Patty Bartley, who impressively competed with him in Georgia at the USA Nationals a couple of years ago. PATTY sold Ukon to Johannes. Pia had nothing to do with it. :-)

From an outsider looking in...

I haven't read everything about the amendment changes so I'm sure I'm not really understanding everything.  But here's a thought:  What if you turn it around and look at it this way:

*WDA members can't belong to UScA.*

For whatever reason you want to give it...they're not good enough (isn't this the source of the midnight trials and Santa Claus judges?).  Or they don't have UScA's best interests at heart.  Whatever reason makes you happy.

If the whole deal was all about the world team politics, why didn't they just pass something saying if you qualify for the world team through WDA, you are banned for life from competing on the world team for UScA? 

For some reason, I'm thinking that the agility world had done this years ago.

That sounds a little better, but its still a dog she bred, her kennel name, correct?  You can see how people can get the impression of a conflict especially since this new amendment is all about alleged conflicts.  And for the record, I like Johannes, this is not about personalities.  I just don't like the amendment attributed to him as it stands without any compelling reason how paying dues to another organziation while paying dues to USA is going to cause the demise of USA unless I belong to only to USA. 

I say get on board or get out of the way! I belive in the preservation of the German Shepherd Dog and it's working heritage, and their is only one club in the US that belives in that at this time, that is USA.

Just as there is only one true religion in this world?  Give me a break.  Many who are not USCA membesr care and feel just as strongly that the GSD remains a working dog and that we breed to the FCI standard.

When USCA has a breeder code of ethics and kicks out all breeders who breed a dog(bitch) that hasn't been titled or breed surveyed, then and only then, will I say USCA is the only club truly working for the dogs.

There is just as much corruption in USCA as in the GSDCA and the WDA, if not more.  In fact I have seen more to support and encourage correct breeding from the WDA than USCA.

People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. 

I say get on board or get out of the way! I belive in the preservation of the German Shepherd Dog and it's working heritage, and their is only one club in the US that belives in that at this time, that is USA.

Just as there is only one true religion in this world?  Give me a break.  Many who are not USCA membesr care and feel just as strongly that the GSD remains a working dog and that we breed to the FCI standard.

When USCA has a breeder code of ethics and kicks out all breeders who breed a dog(bitch) that hasn't been titled or breed surveyed, then and only then, will I say USCA is the only club truly working for the dogs.

There is just as much corruption in USCA as in the GSDCA and the WDA, if not more.  In fact I have seen more to support and encourage correct breeding from the WDA than USCA.

People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. 

I say get on board or get out of the way! I belive in the preservation of the German Shepherd Dog and it's working heritage, and their is only one club in the US that belives in that at this time, that is USA.

Just as there is only one true religion in this world?  Give me a break.  Many who are not USCA membesr care and feel just as strongly that the GSD remains a working dog and that we breed to the FCI standard.

When USCA has a breeder code of ethics and kicks out all breeders who breed a dog(bitch) that hasn't been titled or breed surveyed, then and only then, will I say USCA is the only club truly working for the dogs.

There is just as much corruption in USCA as in the GSDCA and the WDA, if not more.  In fact I have seen more to support and encourage correct breeding from the WDA than USCA.

People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. 

There will not be a Code of Ethics in the UScA, it has been written, proposed and been turned down allready in it's developement.- just as a side note...