What I love and hate about Sch........ - Page 2

I can't say I love it or hate it, what I have seen of it is interesting.
It's easy to see some taking it all too seriously.
I consider it a limited but valuable test of some abilities, but not the know all, see all that some make it out to be.
No doubt it's a lot of work and you have to respect those who are successful.

Beyond that I cannot say, I have no practical experience to relate too.

You know folks, i really do not know what you are talking about of course i do not live over where you Guys are but i cannot see how one country can differ so much from another
For we do not get this attitude over here, everyone supports each other it is as simple as that,
There is none of this I am better than you of course some are more forwards than others but the ones with more experience will help the Guys or Girls with less experience and always do
I am an Englishman and i joined the clubs over here and i did not speak the language much so it was difficult for my brother and myself
We were made welcome, We got to see with our own eyes who was the best handlers of dogs in the Clubs i watched listened and when i had a problem which i needed help with i went to the Guys who i thought were the best, I asked for there help and they gave it to me and so it has gone onto this day, We are part of the Clubs now and friends with all of them they treat us two Engels brothers as one of them, that is all anyone can ask for,
One THING i will say to any one taking up this sport, Listen and learn, and above all be consistent, If you are going to turn up at the club, then go regardless of weather not just be a fair weather trainer that will not get you respect from anyone in any sport,
True Schutzund people like consistency they turn out all weathers and there is no excuse for the weather unless you travel a long way and driving is dangerous to get there, that is different but a phone call or mail in time to say you will not be coming goes a long way
Above all a beginner should listen and not be heard only to ask advice
I have had this dozens of times in the pigeon sport i give advice the person has a short memory and then later he tells me what i told him say 12 months earlier,
You can guess my reaction to him saying that and my reply to him, me being a very polite understanding sort of Guy that i am
One last thing the Schutzund sport does not just revolve around Protection and biting if you have a dog with a great Bite then thats great
Schutzund needs obedience in a Dog and a rapport with its handler all phases of the Schutzund sport revolves around obedience of the Dog whether it be Obed itself or tracking or Protection the Dogs Obed will affect all three phases so make sure the Dog is at one with you the handler to me the MOST important thing and hugely important,
 Sorry for carrying on a bit another marathon letter
Steve1

Gard:

         Your original post on the other thread starts out as a shot about shcutzhund,  So don,t get your panties in a bunch when I respond in kind.


Now if you have read any thing I ,ve ever written about the Schutzhund training you would know I disagree with the award format of the venue. As I have stated before I believe that if I were the all powerful OZ I would split the "sport" titles from the Schutzhund titles. The sport titles would not be or have anything to do with breed quality or representation and it would stay just as it is. The Schutzhund titles would be a tougher more realistic representation of a "Breed Worthiness" test . 

You have also never heard me on this board or can quote me as taking a negitive swipe at other dog venues. So why would I start? just for conversations sake? No. Matter of fact the last time I was involved with this type of thread I invited the folks to com e compete in this venue so they could experience it and I would try theres just to widen my experience and all I got from that attempt was a cold shoulder.

I must say this thread has turned to crap pretty quickly.  But is that suprising considering it is pretty much about crap.  Come on people, look past the ends of your noses.  This is nothing new.  I've trained with ring, french and Mondio and schutzhund people, and people that do a bit of both and compete in multiple venues. 

there is NOTHING that is exclusive to schutzhund clubs.  There isn't even anything that you're more likely to find in a schutzhund club than a ring club or anything else.  You have lots of good people, some bad and everything in between.  If you  don't think there are arrogant people in whatever sport you're training in, you might want to look around a bit more, or maybe look in the mirror, you just might be that person.

I've heard as much back stabbing and gripes about what somebody is doing wrong during training almost everywhere i've been.  Some are more open about it than others, but none were free from it, not by a long shot.  One of the most controlling, can't do wrong, and who's way is always the right way, type people I know trains in Mondio ring.  it's so bad the goals you set for your dog aren't even right sometimes.  talk about high horses.

and why does anybody think this is exclusive to schutzhund or dog sports in general?  Listen to the parents at a high school football game, or at a little league game.  Or listen to the stupid talking heads on tv or half the d-bags in here talk about politics.  or religion, or talk about cars, or tv's  or what type of driver to use on the golf course.  There's always a group of people that just think they know better and treat others like shit.  It isn't just schutzhund, and the notion that it doesn't exist in other countries??? WTF? do you actually live in another country?  i've heard more than a few tirades about other competitors from trainers and judges from other countries.  

I have heard that in Ring Sports, there is a minimum  required  height of both the climbing wall and the jump, but those  can be increased at the discretion of the competitor and when completed successfully can result in higher points than just doing the minimum?  Off the top of my head, that seems like something that would be good to incorporate in schutzhund too.  This way the jump and wall as they are now could be the minimum required, but the jump could be higher and a vertical wall added for those so inclined.  Obviously it is not so simple to work out, but maybe it is something to consider anyway.

zdog
if by chance you are referring to my post then i guess you are saying i am lying but thats okay if what i say is right,
But when i say there is no back stabbing in the clubs i belong to then i mean just that, there is no back stabbing, Perhaps i live in a country where people have a bit more respect and tolerance towards each other i do not know i have never had the pleasure of seeing your country and judging the people first hand in real life
Why should there be any back stabbing anyway
The whole idea of having a Sch Club over here is to have fun training Dogs in a serious way but still fun, If a Dog in the club reaches the heights of being selected for the WUSV and next best over here in the VVDH Championship of Belgium then everyone pulls for that partnership, and that is it and to that end we do have one going for the Belgian Championship later this month
I have always found everyone helpful if they think differently of me then they do not say ,and by there manner they think me okay thats my take on it and i too get on fine with everyone
As regards Ring Sports etc i cannot say i have no time to do anything in my day than i have now
I am happy in the sport i do, i try and work within the rules laid down and thats it if my dog has a fault i try and correct it if i have a fault then i make sure i correct it,
i enjoy the company and the training when it stops being what it is now or i get too old to carry on then it will finish, at the moment everything is good i have a VERY promising young Pup to work with so i am a happy Guy, I have some good friends on this forum to correspond with and thats good so all the negative stuff is meaningless to me i hate being negative in anything
Steve1

Then I guess Belgium is much different than any of the other European countries I have been to and the people are much different than any of the people I have met there and in other countries as well.  South America, Europe, America, the people have been pretty much the same.  Some cultural differences for sure, but when it came down to respect towards others??? Most good, some so nice you never want to leave, and some assholes.  I really believe that Belgium is probably the same, and don't believe for a second that there aren't more than a few trainers talking behind people's backs.

Sue - "I wonder who are the popular kids - AKC agility..." I had to laugh.  There are SOME people extremely snotty in that venue.  The only people that were welcoming at all had working breeds, but they warned that you shouldn't have your dog hang out at all, or better yet go to a different venue, because big drivey dogs makes everyone there uncomfortable... even on good behavior.  This is agility, isn't drive a good thing?!

In my experience, in Schutzhund you will be welcomed initially, but you are walking on eggshells.  I would LOVE to do Schutzhund, both for my dogs, and to learn more about them, but I don't have the luxury of clubs close enough.

What I draw from the snottiness in both venues is just how competitive the individuals are and how important the "sport" is to them.  They are not there just to keep busy with their dogs, and if you are just there for the dogs, they don't really want to waste their time on you.  This is how I can't help but see it.  However, I warn that this will be the downfall of the sports.  In AKC agility most of the competitors (where I've been) are 40+, in Schutzhund maybe a bit younger.  You cast away enough young people, they won't come back, and your sport will die.  Encourage everyone, make it fun for all, and maybe it will grow, and we won't have to travel so far to find a club anymore.

Oh dear!  I didn't mean to imply AKC Agility people or Doggy Dancers are snotty, I only know a few agility people (and they are nice enough) and I don't know any Doggy Dancers.  I just was wondering out loud if grip sports are the weirdo chess club members who are the popular kids in the USA dog world?