If you want to bash/speculate/defend yourself - Page 2

Feel better now, Steve?

My post was a vent, just like yours. It was aimed at those in the sport who treat their dogs like commodities, to be titled, used to make LOTS of money in stud fees or puppies, then thrown on the trash heap when no longer of any use.  We both know they're out there. What happened to these two bitches is proof.

I am well aware not all of those involved in schutzhund, ring sport, etc. are like that. I would like to think the MAJORITY are not, and will give a retired bitch or stud a nice comfortable spot by the fireside or couch until the end of her/his days.** (See below.)

Cruelty in any form makes me see red, and my posts may lack a little something in tact/logic when I"m angry!

Of all the things that I've seen on this board, this is the one that has upset me the most, and made me want to walk away and not look back.

I would, however, like to see an official response to this from those who run the schutzhund sport in N. America. Some damage control needs to be done, so the average joe/jane realizes this is NOT the norm in the sport.

And I'm done with this thread. May these two beautiful, titled bitches rest in peace.

**Okay, Tess posted this in the original thread, and I just had to repost it here:

I  know a few breeders who simply pts the bitches once they aren't going to breed them any more. No rehoming, no living out their lives on the sofa, they go on that last ride and are euthanized, often as early as 6yo.

Many people find this deplorable, others don't. For those who do it, I'm sure they are glad they do because then they know without a doubt that their girls don't end up like Amanda and Adrie. Right?

For those who rehome, how many TRULY keep in touch? The first home could be great, but unless you actually see the dogs there later, they could be passed on and you'd never know it. And down and down they go.

The whole issue is up for discussion. These are large dogs, taking up a lot of space and feed, and today's living usually limits the # of dogs you can have. If you want to stay active in competing and breeding, within a very few short years your competition and breeding dogs will need to make way for your next competition and breeding dogs. With dogs that can live to 12 and up, what do people do?

What do people do? Well, I guess it depends on which you value more: winning ribbons, or the life of the dogs who helped you win all those ribbons and trophies in the past...

Sunsilver, ¶I know that you are Canadian, but, oddly enough, there is DUE PROCESS in Canada, too. That means that the "official responses" you want to see from the schutzhund organizations would be nothing more than nattering, if made at all. If it is that important to you, try reading the "official" statements from those orgs already available, such as their bylaws. USA's make it abundantly clear that part of the organizational credo IS humane treatment of the dogs. Further, USA has discplined members for running afoul of that position. Bother to check the "official" website, and the "official" Rules & Regulations therein. There is even a search mechanism to make it easy for you. ¶Meanwhile, for the umpteenth time for the mentally challenged, NO organization in this country can discipline a NON-member. To make it more easily comprehensible: your mama can spank you, but a stranger has no arguable right to put their hands on you. (And mama could end up in trouble for it, too). Helser is NOT a member of USA and, (given the expressions of various members to members of the EB, including his own idiot postings on this site), he probably will never, ever be allowed to rejoin. The beauty of a computerized world!! :-)

Sunsliver
you quote the post of Tess and it mentions Breeders, Most ScH people i know own one or two Dogs, mostly one and that is enough if you are going to do the Dog and yourself Justice, and it takes several years of training and more years of competition, None of our Dogs ever sit in front of a fire they live a life outdoors all year round, they stay fit and healthy,all my own dogs have lived to be a good age when the time comes it is sad but it comes to us all,
 The youngest dog i have had to put down was 14 years old, the oldest 16.5 all lived outdoors from 8 week old Puppies,and all were buried in the Garden not sent off like a piece of dead meat
 Regards my Dogs if they do not make the grade in the Sch sport then they are still mine they will not leave if they do not make the grade however saying that the present two will although one is only 4 months old at the time
Regarding breeding Kennels and i mean high class ones, of course they sell some of there Dogs on, they need to to change the lines or bring new ones in but the ones i know find a good home for them But what happens if they are moved on by the next owner we do not know, again a good home until there time comes in a natural way we hope but guess it does not always work out, as we see in this case with the two dogs
As for me with Dogs i am no softie nor am i with racing pigeons i put a lot in and i expect something back,
i am fair in the way i handle them,  firm and i mean it when i ask it of them they must look to me not the other way around but everything is done slowly and calmly and never in a rush or temper, for if you do not then they will certainly rule the owner and that is bad for the dogs for as i said before they are the ones to suffer in the end, 
As i said before i get on better with the Dogs etc than i do with humans, 
Steve

I have one thing to say on this subject.
Not a beat, bash, accusation on anything else. Just plain FACT posted here.



I am an 8 year old, dark sable German Shepherd from Germany. I have a Schutzhund I title. My career goal is to be a couch potato and just hang out with my humans. I am very affectionate with adults. I have lived around children, but I do not seek them out. I am fine with most dogs. There are a bunch of dogs here and we get along well. When I first came to rescue I had an extensive spay and radical mastectomy. I am still recovering and am gradually becoming a little more energetic.

This dog may have ended up the same way as the other two. But, she was lucky and one of the rescues I work with got her. She is currently pursuing her career goal.

There's another dog warming my feet at this moment. Bred from import parents, here in the states, by a USA member and a member of the USA SCHH3 Club. The breeder refused on several occassions to take the dog back when asked. Even though the breeder's contract states that " if at any point during the dog's lifetime the original owners can not keep the dog, the dog must be returned". The dog was turned into rescue, the breeder was asked again by rescue to take the dog. Again a refusal. Why? Three litters on the ground at the moment and no room for him.

So, who is it that refuses to stand behind the dogs they breed and/or their own contract?

The bitch pictured above is just one of the dogs recently adopted from one of the rescues I volunteer for. I know nothing about her other than the foster's bio posted above and that she did come with her pink papers. There have been at least two more pink papered dogs moved through this rescue in the last month that I know of. That doesn't count the ones bred here in the states.

As for the other dog here with me now, will be leaving to his new home in a day or two when his adopter's paperwork is finalized. As I'd said in the beginning of my post above, no beating, no bashing, just fact. Naming his breeder would be unfair as they do not post on here to my knowledge.

The breeder wasn't concerned too much about fairness to the dog. Any fool can run right out ans sign upp o post here as soon as a friend or "frenemy" lets them know that their name has been mentioned on the pdb. How often have we seen that? LOL The lastest example, Victoria Driggs, just did it, when the subject of her attempt at hiding under a new kennel name, after exposure as a Dye Queen Cheat. :-) ¶But, you may be right--the smarter ones will stay off this forum and just let any flak die down.