Protective trait in temprament - Page 2

I will never forget this. When Lexie was about 2 years old. I was going to training, but stopped to get gas, as it is cheaper in DuPage County. Anyway... got the gas and this woman put her head right in my  window  on the drivers side, asking for directions.  She came out of nowhere,  and  she did not see Lexie in the back seat. It is a good thing that the back window was up and the seat separated the front from the back . I did not expect the ferocious barking and Lexie trying to get to the front.  The woman screamed and ran, and I think that she could still be running.
By the way... this dog has EXCELLENT  temperament,  and a very good  German Shepherd representative

 is your dog trained in protection?

regards

No.. everytime I would start to do SCH with her, the trainer would do a disappearing act, and pull no shows.   I got tired of this. She would have been an excellent SCH dog. Her sister is a SCH 1.

She is from German Show lines.

Red Sable,
        My dog's sire is Rigo Policia...whose lines go back to Natz Hasenborn & Xero v Kirschental.   On the bottom, he is a Zeira z Jirkova Dvora grandson, and Zar z Pohranicni Straze great grandson. 

JMO, JMO, etc..
Now that that is clear, IMO many kennels/breeders are breeding for high prey drive dogs without defense or suspicion.  IMO many "sport" dogs are being bred with a high emphasis on high prey.  Any time you have a breeding program that focuses on breeding with a particular trait in mind, you will eventually, inevitably breed out other qualities.  Example.  If you breed for conformation as your highest goal, this is your focus, you will eventually see a decline in working qualities and brains.  You cannot isolate one or two or three qualities and make this your priorities and not see it show up in generations later.  It is a law of nature.  Max was an exceptional man/breeder.  He stuck to his guns and did not isolate qualities but built on them while being sure to maintane the rest.

Aloofness was a word that was commonly used when referring to true gsd temperament.  Suspicion without showing fear or excessive aggression.  These dogs were by nature suspicious and were not easily won over by strangers.  The dog always had it in mind that they did not know this person or have trust in them.  This is not the case with many lines today.  I see too many that run up to greet me in their yard, when they do not know me.  Personally, this is not what I want.  Again, if you focus on too much of one thing in breeding, the dog will ultimately lose it's original purpose.

Take you dog to a park, lay down on a bench and take a nap.  Have your dog secured nearby.  Have a stranger approach you while you are sleeping (vulnerable).  Your dog should turn on as the man approaches.  It should be in the dog (IMO) to know that you are vulnerable and defenseless.  If he does not, then I would die his coat red and sell him as a golden retriever.

I am in total agreement olskoolgsds.

hahahahaha that's what spunky acts like, a golden retriever, most of the time. fluffy the poodle is always on guard, the most watchful dog i have ever had, with the possible exception of a rott/gsd mix i had years ago. if i was laying on a park bench like that and someone walked up, spunky would knock them over, then sit in their lap, and lick them to death. one day we came out of our apartment, and some guy was laying on the lawn with his eyes closed. she never saw this guy before but she ran up to him and started licking his face, whining and crying until he opened his eyes and petted her. she's so friendly, i've met lots of people who said they were afraid of dogs until they met her. my ex says she is a wienie but i tell him that i don't want a dog that goes after people while i am living in the city, especially when we share a yard with 7 other apartments. he says, what good is a dog then, if it doesn't go after people. i said well she's a german shepherd, and that's usually enough of a deterrent. 
many people admire her friendliness, and she is a great favorite among local dog lovers.

Olskool,
You are 100 percent right, and its alright for "Ilove my fluffies" to have pet german Shepherds like that as long as they are owners and not BREEDERS!  German Shepherds should be bred to be what they were created to do not what people what them to be!!!

To say "dogs like Sagus and Falko Sindern and Jago jungen Hansen that is gone now" is incorrect. Yes a lot of people are going to the all prey dogs. Yes many have lost that edge. It's helped the sport along, because many who are in the sports now could not handle a dog like the ones you've mentioned. No I don't believe it's helped the breeding stock of those type of breeders. At least as to breeding the original type of GSD. Although there are still many breeders out there that produce, train and compete with the old school, hard core dogs. They just train inside the rules of Schutzhund. They have control of their dogs and can win with them. You can see it in the dogs. You just have to go to the breeders that are breeding those types of dogs. Just be ready to hear (unless you're in the right club) "THAT DOGS SHOULDN'T BE DOING SCHUTZHUND. HE'S TOO SERIOUS. SCHUTZHUND IS A SPORT"  Then train him, title him and win. The greatest satisfaction on Sch.;)

The biggest problem isn't the breeders. IMHO. It's the judging.If the judges would go back to the old way of scoring these sleeve retrievers would fall off in popularity. If the dog that just bites and hangs there with the feather soft grip didn't recieve as high as score as the "REAL DOG" that is trying to stop the helper you'd stop seeing these sleeve retrievers.

I also find it funny how so many times at a trial I hear those same people that say "SCHUTZHUND IS A SPORT" applaud and rave about that tough dog in protection work and it's one of those "real dogs."  Strange isn't it?  Just my $.02

 ram

can you give me pointers on some kennels . Please PM me if you dont want to publicly say. But I'm really thirsting to know some breeders breeding true Active Defense aggression in their GSD dogs & ofcourse Social Aggression Not frustration.

regards