I have a question re; Schutzhund

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by Q Man on 11 September 2009 - 17:09

You are very wise Steve...and very well said...

~Bob~

by EUROSHEPHERDS on 12 September 2009 - 01:09

I have a Question , why using prong and electric collar at trail or before trail is not permitted and if judge see that even before the trail you might be disqualified and banned ?

by VomRuiz on 12 September 2009 - 03:09

I am very new at this, but I'm going to take a guess... And say that you dog should be obedient just by your voice. If you are still needing to use collars ( E or Prong) your dog is simply not ready for the trial. I could be WAY off base here...and don't mind at all being told, as that was a good question Euro :-)

Stacy

by gagsd4 on 12 September 2009 - 03:09

At least 2 dogs at the Working Dog Championships in Nashville this year walked to the ingate before having their ecollars removed. So I guess the judges only see what they see.
--Mary

by VonIsengard on 12 September 2009 - 05:09

Come on, people. Read between the lines. Yet again, those who breed dogs with no working title to back up correct, breedworthy temperment are bashing schutzhund and other dog sports so they can feel justified for having no working standard in their program.

Of course some people who do dog sports train unfairly. So do some obedience trainers, some hunting trainers, some behavioral trainers, etc. You can read "horror stories" about just about every kind of dog trainer and "sport" people are not the only ones out there who have used abusive methods. Should no one train their dog at all for anything just because some trainer/handlers abuse compulsion?

steve1, as usual, wonderful reply, but I fear it falls on deaf ears. This thread has drama written all over it, and it isn't fooling me one little bit.

by steve1 on 12 September 2009 - 05:09

A Dog is controlled by voice commands only and even then the command is given only once, So say you walk to the start and the dog should sit auromatically when you stop no voice command we move off we say Voot once only
Say you want the dog to sit you run forewards with the dog and give the command only once and so on, after each part is completed you can give your dog a quick pat on the flank not over done,seeing that on an obed the dog is off leash all the time so no leash correction can be given anyway, except of course in a BH when you do the first part of the routine on and off the leash
The collars the dog normally wears on a trial is a chain collar but so it cannot tighten up at all
I have never seen a dog go onto a trial field in any other than a chain collar, certainly not a pinch or e collar, not even to the paramimeter of the field,
Anyways i am just going to leave home after this post to go to a trial there are 14 dogs entered in it, next week i think is the Interland trial between Belgium and Holland, the week after a big selection trial for the Belgian Championships then two weeks later the Belgian Championships which will be held at my Club, so a good month ahead
Steve

by kitkat3478 on 12 September 2009 - 08:09

You sure got a chip on your shoulder kczaja, don't you now! Where is the drama? I posted a simple question wondering is it all about the title, or should it be fun for the dog too.
    My dog(s),think everything is fun. And I work with my dogs ,everyday. Do I care if they are up to your standards? No, I don't. I have a prong collar,extra prongs and I use it prong side out. My one dog is excellent in EVERYTHING HE DOES.
Yeah, we failed the BH(actually I did), gave it a shot though didn't I? And I'll do it again, next time quietly so I don't have the cheerleaders waiting for failure.
     I need no excuses for myself or my dogs, I do with them what pleases me. It's just a little rough when your out there with people that have motives different than your own.
    Sort of like golfing, I do it for fun with a bucket of beer. I could give a crap if my ball ends up in the woods or the water.It's fun. I've been called in to fill in on golf tournaments, even tho the pros that own the course know I'm a barefoot golfer. When you reach down to move your ball, your capt'n and crew is like, what the heck!!I I do it for fun, just like I work my dogs for fun.
    I got a few of my dogs hips and elbows done, if I get a title...more power to me! If not, who really gives a crap.

I can take my dog Duke, who I do the most with, ANYWHERE, and he is WELCOME! He knows how to act. I have to tell him something ONE TIME, and it's done. That pleases me, and that's what matters, OK!

I've just been reading all these different ways people train their dogs, and some of them, are down right cruel. My point was, Is your dog truly trained if you got to use some of these training tactics? And I certainly wasn't expecting ANYONE to admit to using BRUTE FORCE on their dog.

Are you in it for the title, or the fun?

by VonIsengard on 12 September 2009 - 13:09

If you wanted an answer for your "question", you need only go back to the many many posts here from those have have said the same thing as you. You have essentially asked us if we abuse our dogs. How ridiculous. If you think that's having a chip on my shoulder, go right ahead and think it, I think you're one of the last ones who should throw stones.

Let me copy paste from my other post: Of course some people who do dog sports train unfairly. So do some obedience trainers, some hunting trainers, some behavioral trainers, etc. You can read "horror stories" about just about every kind of dog trainer and "sport" people are not the only ones out there who have used abusive methods.

I'll point out, as I have on other similar threads, that many sport people I know are averse to giving a hard correction at all, to afraid they'll damage drives! Those who are unfair and excessively hard are looked down upon by most handlers and trainers I know!

Aside from a small handful of big name breeders and high end handlers, very few people in schutzhund get any kind of recognition and it sure as hell isn't lucrative. So, what, you think they all go out on Sundays and helicopter ours dogs around for enjoyment, fry 'em up with a shock collar? I have done schutzhund because its interesting and challenging, a good working dog has a blast and has its mind kept busy, and I give a damn about working ability being kept in these dogs and don't feel the need to make some puppies just because my doggie is so well behaved when we go for a walk.

by kitkat3478 on 12 September 2009 - 14:09

Yet again, those who breed dogs with no working title to back up correct, breedworthy temperment are bashing schutzhund and other dog sports so they can feel justified for having no working standard in their program.
     BTW Kcjazia-EVERYONE of my dogs have breedworthy temperments-I just don't breed them all. Sorry to disappoint you.
You want to take a simple question, and turn it into , your agenda, slam me.

      I am in no way bashing schutzhund, Quite the opposite. There are alot of people on this database in which I respect their views and methods.That's why I come here.
   I try to get different views and opinions on different subjects.When i'm interested in something, I study it, and TRY to learn what I can. I have NEVER seen any of the questionable acts of training used,(hope I never do).
     The people at my local club, all seem to enjoy what they are doing, and so does their dogs. My dog enjoys what we do, so critisize me for declaring a very obedient dog, OK.
    I already said, your opinion means NOTHING TO ME, the opinions of others does.

by ramgsd on 12 September 2009 - 14:09

If you have a prong collar, why use it prong side out? Wouldn't a normal choke collar work the same?

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