Thoughts on this trainer? (Constructive please!!) - Page 2

What is Sch training method...what is KNPV training method.....UGH!! You train dogs to do tasks. You apply these tasks to the goals you have in mind for the dog. There are many many different ways to train a dog and they all work or else they would be extinct. Its the individual doing, the training, and the ability to read and motivate dogs. One of the reasons that Sch  is no longer the barometer people use for real working dogs is the mentality that this specialized sch training way is the "proper" way to train. Whenever, I hear hear people (unless we are talking about puppies) say that I wouldn't let my dog work this one or that one, I cringe. Just me. Back in the day we didn't have decoys with good housekeeping seals to let our dogs work on. We went to any venue that was training, whatever they were doing whether it was suit, sleeve, muzzle, night training or even water training and we asked our dog to do it. And most times they did. the dog handled what was presented to it. Didn't damage the dog whatsoever and actually made the dog stronger as it was prepared for anything. I don't know if this guy is a good trainer or not, but go there and see firsthand and if you have done Sch before then you should know basic effectiveness if you see it. This specialization in sport training has crippled a good sport in my opinion.

Gustav, to funny, "Goodhouse keeping seals".

Having done both SchH and French Ring, I can add some light as to the differences in theory for the helper/decoy.  SchH helpers basically follow the philosophy, "Get the Dog on the Arm Safely", whereas the "Ring" type sports, French, NVBK (Belgian), KNPV (Dutch) are based on being an adversary of the dog.  The job of the Ring decoy is to keep the dog away for as long as possible or completely.  The decoy is there to "steal" your points.  Bites in French Ring are timed by the judge with a stopwatch.  Once the dog gets within one meter of the decoy, the clock starts.  After the prescribed time (according to exercise) has elapsed, the judge will signal the handler to either "Out Recall" or "Out Guard" the dog.  The longer the decoy can keep the dog off of the bite, by either movement or esquive (escape) or by barrage of the reed stick, the less points the dog will receive.  So the statement that the decoy (in this case) is supposed to stand there and safely catch the dog is false.

Thanks everyone for comments, insights and clarifications.
--Mary

 Hi, I have a suggestion that might be of some help.  If you decide not to use this decoy.  I was in a similar situation, we had no decoys here I could use at all and I wanted to get involved in protection training.  So what I did is I actually trained everything with a tug, jute and other such equipment some of which I hung from a tree.  I successfully trained a correct bite, release, hold and bark, etc....so well in fact that when I went to get her taped (so I could sell her), with the decoy I disliked, even though it was her first time on the sleeve and they tried desperately to make her fail (they didn't like Malinois), she made them drop their jaws in awe (I have them on video actually gasping and wowing) and the dog successfully got sold into a breeding program for working dogs.

I can't stress enough how important foundational work is and you can do a lot of the work yourself without the decoy and it makes it that much easier to switch over to one later.  I have seen countless videos of dogs not releasing on first cue, even trained police dogs...this is despicable IMO as every moment your dog is biting someone they are inflicting pain, when that person gives in it is imperative that your dog release imediately!!!! or IMO that is abuse.  This and issues such as full mouth bite, hold with distractions, jumping and holding for the bite, hitting a moving target, even send aways etc all can be done w/o a decoy so that the transition time is minimal.  You can also do a lot of premac work so that your dog can be called off a target, bomb proofing...just about everything.

Best of luck with your training!