shilo shepherds are not german shepherds - Page 2

Hans and Sunsilver,
Thank you for all the information on the Shilohs. It clarifies some things about the breed. I have never found any info written by Tina that claims any breed other than GSDs have been intoduced to develop the Shilohs, but I am going to read the links Hans provided. Personally I really like the Shilohs and I don't really care. But then again, I love the longcoats too...so I could be considered a real outcast by many on this board!
Char   

The amount of non-GSD blood in the Shilohs is very small. Even Samson was more GSD than Malemute. The differences are more a result of selective breeding than anything else. Even before the outcross to Samson, Tina's lines produced Duster's Bogey Down, a 30 inch tall, AKC registered GSD!  www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/526084.html

Ensomhed's Luke von Shiloh, the dog Tina shows in her avatar on the Shiloh message board, was 29 inches.

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/527148.html  As you'll see from his pedigree, he was a pure American lines GSD, heavily linebred on Lance of Fran-Jo, and Fortune of Arbywood!

Hard to find pictures of these dogs, as Tina lost most of her old photos when her house burned to the ground in 2000. This is the best I can do: www.shilohshepherds.info/The%20Fabulous%20Four.pdf
Since it's a PDF document, the pictures won't cut and paste!  Both Boeg and Luke are on page 13....

I defer to my lovley lady from Canada...

Personally, I'm glad they are a separate breed, if someone wants a low drive, oversize GSD, they can just get go get a Shiloh, rather than patronize a breeder than deliberately bastardizes the GSD. King Shepherds, too. Just don't call it a GSD because it isn't, and it's fine with me.

The Shiloh's are missing on the list of breeds, here. I wonder if the founder ever thought to ask Oli to add it, he does request omissions to be brought to his attention.

Beetree, personally, I wouldn't wish that on Oli. The relationship between the ISSR, and the so-called 'sliver' breeders who broke with Tina is very VERY bad!

Just imagine if YOU were trying to breed purebred GSD's and someone kept crossing them with Shilohs, and STILL insisting they were purebred GSD's... 

That's exactly what a lot of the slivers are doing with the Shilohs!  And, since the breed is still considered to be 'under development' so far, they've been able to get away with it!

Oh, then, it isn't a an accepted breed at this time then, it seems? If it was accepted as breed, wouldn't the standard GSD's be deemed unacceptable for their pedigree? I guess I'm not quite sure on how one goes about starting a new breed, and therefore how its registry would work.

Beetree, as I understand it, according to the rules of the ARBA, a rare breed may keep an open stud book, as long as the first generation outcrosses are not shown in ARBA shows. This is allowed because the gene pool of a rare breed is very limited at first, and new blood has to be brought in now and then to maintain genetic diversity. When Tina got the software for calculating COI (coefficients of inbreeding) she was shocked by how high some of them were. Thus she had to bring in a few outcrosses in the late 80's-early 90's.

When a number of breeders split with her, their gene pool was even MORE limited, as Tina would not allow them to cross their dogs with hers. After their dogs began to suffer from too much inbreeding, which resulted in loss of size and very bad tails (too much of the malemute blood) their only other option was to outcross to GSD's.  These dogs were STILL being accepted by the ARBA as suitable for registration and showing, which was completely contrary to their own rules, which state breeders must NOT continually outcross or backcross to the parent breed(s), as the goal is to eventually fix type and close the stud books.

Tina complained, and got absolutely nowhere. Therefore, she withdrew her Shilohs from the ARBA.  This was a sad state of affairs, as she is MUCH closer to accomplishing her goals than the breeders who split with her. I'm not sure how long its been since she did an outcross, but I think it's at least 10 years. Her last outcross. Artus zum Soehrwald, is now 13 years old, and long retired. The stud books MUST be closed in order for the breed to get full recognition by the AKC and other major registries.

We might not be able to spell every word correctly being that we are hard working people who sometimes get a little tired but the posts that sunsilver has been posting on here seem to be contradicting. The SHILOH SHEPHERD is a MUTT and we are entitled to our opinion.Thats what posts are for.We have read your opinions also.By the way sunsilver,you wouldn't happen to be related to OBAMA would you? Because you are as contradicting as he is!!!!!!!!!!!!!SHILOH is a mutt because it is a mixed breed of german shepherd and i think you said malamute.Sounds like HEINZ 57 to us!!!!!!!