Provoked attack! - Page 2

Bucko: I disagree with your statement.  I am training dogs for living. I have, in 44 years, trained probably over 3000 dogs in one way or the other and handled multiple that may dogs in my and other boarding kennels, breeding kennels and grooming shops. I have been expert witness on dog attacks in court 2x. Dogs are my life 100%.  I have been bitten 79x  in these 44 years meaning the bite went through the skin all the way more or less. I do not count scratches and bruises. Except one equipment failure, where dog found the hole in the lacing of a hidden sleeve, I have NEVER been bitten by a SchH dog or trained police dog or personal protection dog. I have ALWAYS been bitten by pet dogs, untrained kennel dogs,  and boarding and grooming protection UNtrained dogs. I have got bitten by every Lhasa Apso I have ever handled or trained.
Based on this experience,
 I believe that every dog bites in the right ( or wrong) situation. HOWEVER properly trained dogs do it on command or where situation requires it. Untrained dog does it when ever HE BELIEVES it is right. Thus any properly protection trained, or SchH dog is safer then protection untrained dog. Yes I agree with you that we are somewhat off since we love dogs more then average (what ever that is) person. However just because someone has an opinion based on ignorance does not mean that I should respect it.  By ther way; every attack has a reason or is provoked. Sometimes by idiots.
Prager (Hans)
http://www.alpinek9.com

Ocoey,
It was a provoked attack!  Did you not see the little devil calling her and egging her on!  LOL. 

Actually, this is her temperment.  If you are a friend of mine then you must be OK and are therefore fair game.  If she thinks for one moment you a friend then she is all over you.  Normally not to this extreme but she must be told to back off or she will end up in your lap.  Also, if you are wearing sandals, she can't leave bare toes alone.  Sooner or later she will get a lick or two in.  She's a goofy, sweet sweet girl.

Deb      

Bucko I also have to respectfully disagree.

When I was much younger my parents had a purebred lab bitch.  My folks are what I call typical pet owners, their dogs are allowed on the bed, are fed scraps from the table and basically live a spoiled rotten life. 

Unfortunately when she was about 2 she was hit by a car and lost the use of her left front leg.  After that incident not only was she spoiled rotten but she also became ... withdrawn.  Understandable given what she went through but my folks refused to see the change in her behavior.  They still saw 'oh a happy go lucky labrador who loves everybody' and other people of course saw the 'lab myth' as well.   Personally I did not trust her an inch and when we were on walks or anything made it a point to keep myself between her and well meaning people who wanted to come up to her.

Usually when people started to get close, she would sound off aggressively, hackles up and that was enough to get people to back off.  Of course my well meaning parents were always 'oh she's just talking'.  I forget how many arguements I had with them that she wasn't 'just talking' she was one step away from biting.

Now my Sch trained GSD girl when I have her out in public I put her on what I call 'casual obedience' which basically means 'pay attention to me but you don't have to be totally focused like on the field'.  With that level of OB I've been able to put her in a sit and a platz and trust that she's going to remain relaxed at my side.  This was tested one time when I was out having a morning coffee and she was sitting at my side watching the world go by.  There was no one around us but between one second and the next a small child had broken away from her parents and was hugging my dog.  My girl sat like a rock, didn't try to lick or squirm away and instead gave me a look of 'there's a small person hugging me, Mom?'

The girl's father came, apologised profusely and collected her and the three of us (before people sound off, her father used this as a chance to talk to her about her actions) had a polite conversation of why you don't run up to strange dogs.  Everybody went away back to their vacation.

I'm sorry but give me my well trained Sch dog over a spoiled rotten pet any day of the week.

I think it has to do with the temperament of the dog above all else. Negative issues would have been weeded out for a titled sport, pp or police dog, if the handler is any good. Those rejects end up somewhere, like a nice pet home, lol? Then the competence of the pet owner will next come to play. I don't think being spoiled rotten has anything to do with it. 

DebiSue, My Mojo loves licking toes too, and chubby kid cheeks. However, some big people will freeze up with fright, just from the sight of him. Which is fine by me.

Here is a story of a provoked attack.
 My friend in Wyoming had a GSD and he named him Hitler (?). I do not know why, dog was all lover, loved kids and people in general. Not  a coward, pp trained, but just a lover of the world. He loved to watch all day through the screen door what is going on on the street. Every day there was a news paper boy going by and he thought that it is a fun to watch Hitler jump when he throws  the news paper such a way it hits the screen door just in front of the dog's face. Every body told the boy not to do that. One day about 1 year into this going on every day, when the news paper hit the door again, Hitler got up, went upstairs into a bed room, jump from the bed room window onto the roof of the porch, from there on pail of fire wood from wood on the road and run full boore after the boy's bicycle. Bit the boy in the ass. One simple powerful bite. 1 second according to a witness. Then Hitler turned around, jump on the pile of fire wood , roof of the porch into the bedroom and down stairs to watch what is going on through the screen door. My friend, when he found out, was worried greatly, because the father of the paper boy was a "bad dude". And sure enough. Door bell rings and the father is in the door. My friend opens door worriedly in expectation of a trouble. But the boy's father said. Hey,  if  Hitler ever has pups I want one :).
True story.
For the sake of the breed.
Prager(Hans)
http://www.alpinek9.com  

I read that the highest number of hospitalizations due to bites and fatal bites come from large breeds, with the GSD being at the top, along with Rotts, Pitts, and some others, but the fact of the matter is that far more people are attacked and bitten by Jack Russells, Dachsunds, Toy poodles, Chihuahuas, and other small breeds.  It takes nothing at all to get one of them set off and get it to bite you.

I've seen psychotic border collies, Aussies, Labs, Dalmations, and other breeds that would bite, too.

But most of those dogs were that way because of the owners, not the dogs.  They were that way because the humans were too stupid or lazy to give them the training they needed to face the world.

I have no experience with Schutzhund training, or PPD, but I can tell you that the GSD I have been around that have been trained are far calmer and balanced than some of those dogs in those nice fenced yards.

There are just a lot of ignorant people.  I've been told that GSDs are crazy, unpredictable dogs.  Oakley is stable, reliable, gentle, and the best dog I could have.  Misty is relatively obedient, but she is not reliable, can be easily distracted, and if she gets her sights set on something, she gets crazy about it, barking like crazy and totally off her rocker, until you can get a hand on her and shake her out of it. 

Give me the GSD any day!

Crys

Statistics are funny thing, you can prove what ever you want by cleverly formulated statistic. Improperly formulated statistic may also be deceptive. I believe this is the case of such statistic. So let me debunk this one.
 Consider that:
1.GSD are statistically seriously injuring or killing more people then any other breed because it is in their job description. GSD is most popular dog all over the world for Police, Military, security and private protection. That gives to public wrong impression that GSD is a vicious beast.  That is like saying that soldiers are by nature vicious killers because they kill a lot of people.
2.Also GSD is most popular breed on the world thus there is more injuries done by them as a whole.
3.Also GSDs are blamed for injuries done by any mutt who remotely resembles GSD .
For the sake of GSD breed.
Prager Hans
Http://www.alpinek9.com

My sister works with statistics. She called McDonalds corporate to complain that they have begun putting 1/2 a slice of cheese on their fish sandwiches. Corporate explained that in their surveys, 88% of people preferred only half a slice of cheese. My sister pointed out that if you ask people, "Do you prefer a dead rat or half a slice of cheese on your sandwich?"
MOST people will say HALF A SLICE OF CHEESE! You can get statistics to say anything.

I was nervous choosing a trainer to work with years ago to train my GSD for PPD...  I settled on Greg after watching his dog work happily for him... and his statement :

"YOU CAN GET ANY DOG TO BITE... A TRAINED DOG IS ONE WHO KNOWS WHEN NOT TO BITE"   


nuffsaid....