Weak K9 almost gets handler killed - Page 2

Say what you want, but that dog saved that cops life.  The fact the dog re engaged and distracted the subject gave the cop time to draw his back up weapon.  The cop fired several rounds killing the suspect.  I've also seen the full video.   It was a single purpose drug dog, not trained for apprehension work, I'd be happy with that  dog's response for a drug dog.  I would obviously expect more from a patrol dog.  

I look at this way; I'm a cop with a job to do.  If I tell you that your under arrest and you don't comply it's game on till the cuffs are on.  Then it's over.  I have several tools at my disposal to effect an arrest from a non compliant individual ranging from OC spray, defensive tactics techniques, a baton, a dog and a gun.  In that cops situation I am not counting on any body or any single piece of equipment.  If OC doesn't work I'll try something else, if elbows and knee strikes aren't effective I'll escalate to the dog or baton.  The dog and baton are basically the same level of force.  A dog is not lethal force and I don't expect my dog to fight my battles for me.  If a subject is armed with a knife or gun the dog is not an option just like my baton or ASP is no longer an option, I'm going to my gun.   

I am fortunate to have a fairly hard patrol dog,  several people on the PDB have seen him work.  I know his strengths and what he is capable of and what I can expect from him.  When it comes to a gun fight or an armed subject the dog is out and I'm on my own. 

I'm very happy the cop in the video survived and was relatively unhurt, I'm also glad he was able to eliminate that pos.  The world is a safer place with out that garbage in it.

Jim

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Again Just my personal Opinion
EK

In my opinion the dog did what was expected of it considering all circumstances.
The officer was the one who let the suspect grab his weapon.
In official police k-9 training are the dogs ever struck over the head with a gun and taught to rip out the suspects throat?
No.
Can dogs be taught to do this yes, but you lose something in return.
Genetics yes definitely, but thats nothing without the training.  The bond between dog and man also has meaning here when you talk about life and death situations.  You can't teach that.
Are officers trained how to react to this situation?
Yes.
Does everything ever work out like the books say?
No.
Second guessing, armchair quarterbacks, you weren't there.
Weak dog?
No, I disagree.  
Shit happens, you never know when or where.  You just hope your still standing once the dust settles.

I guess I've just been lucky enough to own some really GOOD dogs, and I've owned some not so good, too. I know the difference. One of the dogs I owned was Pele vom Kiebitzmoor. THAT was a REAL dog! He was owned for six years by Herr Peter Immel, who was the head of the entire SDG (Sektion Dienst und Gebrauchshundewesen) in the DDR. HIs oversight encompassed all of the border dogs ("wall dogs"), police and military dogs, also the working dog trials, etc. If anyone would have a good dog, he would. Pele was a true manstopper. But, he had absolute obedience and although he was not raised to be an affectionate dog, and I knew he was the real deal, I never felt like he was not completely under control. He was not the only super dog I owned. I would say that Roy and Roccer von der Müritz were dogs I also would trust my life on. On the other hand.. I owned several titled dogs which I did not consider to be on the same calibre. I owned one SchH3 bitch from W. German show lines who didn't know how to do a damned thing and would give you a blank look if you jumped around in front of her with a sleeve. Unbelievable!

I liked the DDR dogs.. They were not ALL good, of course, but they were a lot like the GSD was in W. Germany back in the early 70's when I first got involved in the dogs. I think the breed kind of went to hell in a handbasket when the Martin brothers took over everything. A LOT of good bloodlines and genetic diversity just disappeared. The Japanese had started to throw a LOT of money at the high show winners, and everyone jumped on the bandwagon and went into the Canto / Quanto lines. And, actually, one of my all time favorite dogs was a Quanto Wienerau granddaughter.. But, she went to a lot of other good old lines you cannot find anymore. Shame on the SV and Germans, really, that they have done this to the breed. I was a member of the SV from 1974 until 1999. I put in 25 years and quit!!!! It was not the same breed, anymore, not the same organization. I used to covet these pretty black and gold / red show dogs, but now they almost make me sick to see. This is what is left of the original breed, and believe me, you would not recognize them as the same breed, anymore. There are still some good dogs, of course.. some fabulous ones, but there are a lot of problems, too (if it still is as it was when I was working with "show" lines). Also, consider also the other original, indigenous lines which were lost in the rush to pretty show dogs! Where are the blacks, the bi colors, the sables? If not for the working dog breeders, they would be entirely gone, too!

I have just had my first litter in ten years, and these are the kind of dogs I like. They are mostly old working lines, sables. They are AKC registered, but personally, I do not care about that. AKC never did anything for these dogs but make trouble for them and their breeders, so far as I am concerned. In the early days when I had some fantastic imports from East Germany, AKC would not allow them to be bred together!!!! I bred them anyway, and registered the pups with UKC!!!!

Anyone have a link to the full video?

i am amazed as to how much every one has to say here about this the only one to be blamed here is the handler and any one who trained this dog.also form what i watched of this vedio where was the stupid handler in all this when the dog was engaging the bad guy. have a nice one.

I am not amazed. If you were to see the entire video, and understand the story behind it, it would make more sense. It was a single purpose drug dog who engaged out in instinct through a window that was down.  That simple.  People on here just like to judge and jump to conclusions.

As usual on the PDB a lot of opinions without the experience or the correct info needed to make an informed observation.  Not saying this is the case with everyone here.  But if you haven't fought a bad guy over a gun in the course of an arrest or handled a police K9 you simply lack the training, knowledge and real world life experiences to understand all of the dynamics that can change in a split second. 

I don't like Monday morning quarterbacking other cops.  I have seen and studied the whole video several times in the past.  I view video like that very seriously because I could easily be in the same spot.  I have fought with guys who were armed several times and it's not fun.  I give that cop a lot of credit and respect; he did an excellent job.  It certainly could have been a lot worse.  

FWIW,
Jim

Yes, and speaking of jumping to conclusions, someone made the assumption from my statement that a police dog could be / would be trained to go for the throat. I seriously doubt this would ever happen in civilian police training, however, it should be noted that a really confident dog with a lot of fighting drive will tend to keep pressing in and very often they will go high, or climb higher on the man during the fight. That is just an impossible situation for a bad guy to deal with, especially if it is a large, muscular dog which would tend to hang it's weight and shake hard, like a rottweiler.
The dogs which bite on the end of the arm or leg cuff can be struck hard with an implement or stick, the suspect can rotate their arm and slip out of their grip or possibly even bring them in and choke them. I've been in a fight with a dangerous dog and at one point I had him pinned between my knees, with an ear in each hand, riding him like a motorcycle. I had him completely under my control. Of course, there was the problem of what to do next, when you have the tiger by the tail. He was roaring like a bull, he was so mad. That dog put about 50 stitches in me, and came close to cutting a tendon in my arm, but I felt no pain.. the result of adrenalyn and endorphins which pump out into your body when you're in a REAL fight! Point being, there, that you cannot rely on the effect of a painful bite or hold to stop a man. It may actually escalate the fight, and the same applies with a good dog, if fighting back is in his nature.
The other point I wish to make about my personal dogfight is that I ALWAYS wanted that dog on my forearm, versus anywhere else on my body. I FED HIM MY FOREARM, just to keep him off the rest of me! I knew that once he got onto my torso, or upper arm, I was lunchmeat! And if a dog can get high onto your back, your toast!
If it were me, I'd rather have a really tough dog to where he's got the suspect SO compromised that not only is he too busy fighting the dog to think about me, but to where he might even see me as his friend and WANT me to live, so he can hope to get the dog off!
I can tell you from experience that even when you are "in the tunnel" and fighting for your life, you DO think, and often with amazing clarity and focus. Time DOES even slow down.. But you don't feel a thing! The pain comes later, well after the conflict. Thus a bite is not going to be enough to stop a desperate suspect and may even send him into overdrive. In my opinion, it is critically important that the dog is able to actually get a strong physical advantage as soon as the fight escalates.