Bak Belejakov Dvor is not Norbo Ben-Ju son? - Page 2

Rin Tin Tin - unless you do DNA test to your female you won`t know if is is or isn`t Norbo`s daughter. Cause there is a possibility she is his daughter - the breeder bred his female to Norbo but she was also mated to some other male, probably by his male by coincidence,this is what I guess happened.Dogs from that litter have two fathers.

Wasn't Bak sold to someone here in the US by Jiri?

There you go.......

I could go on and on about how all the restrictions and SV rules and regs are a big reason why GSD's are such a mess now, but it would be like trying to speak french to a dutchman. It seems those who follow the preachings of the SV cult (and any other official bullshit registry) just don't get it.

The more I learn and think about breeding the clearer it becomes. Breeding restrictions and rules equate into weakening the breed.

The Dutch KNPV and Belgian NVBK produce the best and healthiest working dogs in the world; period. and they do so with very little restrictions. Now some of you will say oh but they cross breed Malinios with Dutch shepherds they are not "purbred dogs". Well I guess that depends on how you look at it. The Dutch and those that follow their breeding practices see the Dutch Shepherd and the Malinios as the same dog, just with a different coat. Brown dogs are Malinios and brindle dogs are DS. Simple as that.

"Papers" and registries are the downfall of dogs. The only thing they are good for is money. The governing registries get money from the registrations and the breeders get more money selling  "purebred" dogs. Now I am blaming the governing bodies of dogs sports as well. You have to have an "official" pedigree to win national and world levels for SCH, IPO, French, and Mondio ring. You can compete with an unregistered dog you just can't "win" even if you actually perform better than the dog with a "pedigree"

If you really look at it what good is paperwork other than to wipe you ass with it? Does the paperwork make a dog perform better? Does the bad guy stop running from the police dog because of it's registration papers? Does the rancher or shepherd who actually depends on their dogs for their lively hood pick the dog by it's pedigree or by how they work livestock. In sport competition, do the papers or accuracy of the papers help the dog perform better on the field. Hell no.

I am on my soapbox here because I am seeing this crap beginning to affect the Malinios. It has been long accepted that Malinios pedigree's were not correct and you had to do your homework. Breeders used to be very open and honest( some still are) about the true pedigrees and allowed the buyers to make their own decisions. Well what is happening now is the people with good dogs with known false pedigrees (remember most of them are false anyway but only those who are honest about it suffer) are winning competitions and the losers are snitching them off to the AKC. So instead of trying to better their own breeding program or training level they hurt the people who are actually producing better dogs. So in the end, it is the breed that suffers.

Knowlegeable breeders should not breed by rules or to paperwork. They should breed to the individual dogs, their knowlege and experience, and the science of genetics.

I have paperwork on the mal I own right now. She comes from the best of the best, but she herself has some issues. We have fun and I don't expect anything more out of her than can be expected.  If I ever run out of toilet paper, I can use her AKC papers to wipe my ass.

Well said   GARD   and AKC  sometimes doesn;t know what they are doing and makes very  big mistakes......

Will they own up to it.....no.....I know three breeders who have had it happen to them.. Where or what akc did with the correct paperwork or the results of testings, No one will  ever know...but it is a real jade to have to swallow akc  telling a breeder they have lied or switched papers when it is akc who screwed something up and it is a mute subject when the sire is DEAD>

Get a real dog - I can`t agree with you about the restrictions weakening the breed.You guys say that Czech lines belong to best ones.Do you know why?Because of the restrictions.In Czech republic and in my country Slovakia the dogs must pass certain procedures to be allowed to breed.They have to get at least good at the exhibition judged by a GSD judge.The dogs must have their hips and elbows evaluated - a-normal,fast normal and noch zugelassen are allowed.The dogs must pass a trial - IPO 1, SchH 1,SVV 1 or ZVV 1 is a must.Plus here in Slovakia they must pass the breed survey test - the dog mustn`t be afraid of a gunfire and has to pass the protection test - it means attack out of the blind and long attack.The aim of breeders in my country is to breed healthy GSDs with correct body structure,strong nerves and workability.Dogs with bad hips or elbows,with weak nerves and lack of drives are not allowed to breed.If we or Czechs didn`t have these restrictions we wouldn`t have such good dogs. A lot of people would breed GSDs with pedigree just for the money as they do now but with other breeds such as Jack Russel terrier and other ones.The difference between the price of a GSD puppy with a pedigree and without a pedigree is not that big in our country,breeding GSDs with pedigree is not a question of money,those who are interested only in money breed or better say multiply other breeds.The problem is that Bak`s breeder was lying,he mated his female to other male claiming Norbo is the sire of the pups and wanting to have pedigrees for his litter.He shouldn`t have registered such a litter or if he wanted to a pedigreed litter he could mate the female to a dog that at that time fullfilled all the requirements.Norbo wasn`t the only good dog in Slovakia at that time.We had,we have and I believe we will still have plenty of good working dogs in Slovakia.Fortunately, there are few breeders such as Bak`s breeder and if SUCHNO headquarters find out something like that happened the breeder is punished.  

The problem is that Bak`s breeder was lying,he mated his female to other male claiming Norbo is the sire of the pups and wanting to have pedigrees for his litter.

so its really true. as what Rin Tin Tin mentioned, We have pups from the littermate of Bak.  in your opinion, its no longer necessary to register those puppies? after finding out Bak is not from Norbo.

thanks

Unfortunately,I feel that this is true.

Bak was a former stud at Jinopo,then suddenly he was gone,he was also not listed at the retired or sold studs which he was suppose to be listed there. I think Jinopo knows the truth.

Personally,the papers for me is not that important,what matters to me is the performance of the dog itself,papers for me is just a bonus,if a dog has it why not.if a dog don't have papers it's ok as long he serves his purpose.

It's just frustrating tho that all these years our group was made to believe that we have a Norbo daughter(littermate of Bak) and we have pups from that female,because we admire Norbo so much,I even intentionally bought a male pup from Czech that is also a grand son of Norbo to make a 3-3 line breeding on Norbo...then we learned that the foundation bitch we have here is not Norbo's daughter.

Anyway,the pups are good and are showing very good potentials.

Life goes on and training goes on.

To breeders that make lies.....KARMA IS THE UNIVERSAL JUSTICE SYSTEM...it will haunt you.