K9 wash outs???

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by RDH on 08 May 2009 - 01:05

Get a real dog-- thanks for the advice. I guess I have to research more. I'm limited on what I can get at the moment. So would you say that K9 wash outs are more for a security dog in a home (not for sport homes)?

by Get A Real Dog on 08 May 2009 - 02:05

It depends on the individual dog. I am sure there are some very nice dogs that were all play and had no interest in biting for real out there, but they are more of an exception than the rule.

So for me, the answer would be yes. I police washout would be good for and active pet or personal protection dog, but not for sport.

If you are on a budget, I would suggest looking for owners who are trying to place dogs that are 'too hyper" or "to hard to train" or "to rough with the kids" etc or if you are lucky enough tho have someone who will really spend time helping you, comb the local shelters.

Another option would be to look for breeders who want to place females on a co-own. this can be tricky, but if you find the right breeder, you could end up with a very nice dog.

With this economy and alot of people breeding, the price of puppies is going down right now. Be patient and do your research and you should be able to pick up a nice pup in the future for a reasonable price.

Good luck

by Slamdunc on 08 May 2009 - 02:05

Most PD's buy there dogs from vendors. Recently, we had a dog "wash out" for environmental issues. Once the dog became accustomed to a certain building or environment he would be fine. But in Police K-9 work the areas you are in are constantly changing.

Since the dog was bought from a vendor he was returned and replaced for a dog that hospitalized his handler and nailed the trainer of a very large cities PD. The dog is very dominant, aggressive and civil, he doesn't need equipment to bite. One day during training with a bite suit this dog targeted us as we watched. It was a race to fit 4 K-9 guys through a door before the dog nailed us. The dog is now doing great. He has a habit of growling when told to down, he does it but growls the entire time he goes down. I'm sure his previous handler corrected him severely for this and the dog defended himself. The new handler has taken a new approach and they are a fantastic team.

So, my point is that most "wash outs" are returned to the vendor and replaced in my area anyway.

Sometimes you will find a PD looking to place a dog. Best thing to do would be to contact your local Pd's K-9 units and let them know your interested in adopting one of their dogs. You never know.

Jim

by VonIsengard on 08 May 2009 - 02:05

The facilty I work for has washed K9s for all kinds of reasons, not necessarily because they are not good working dogs in the right hands.

-Departments signed up may back out, leaving an extra dog- by the time the next class (they only run 2 a year) rolls around, the dog may exceed the age limitation. I can think of one recently that would have been a great sport dog and I'm still kicking myself in the ass for not buying him myself. Stupid, stupid.

-Just ok hips are not good enough. They need to be excellent.

-The dogs need to be willing to work. Someone in sport may have time to deal with a "handler hard" or stubborn dog, but when thousands of taxpayer dollars are on the line, who has time for an argumentative dog? Along those lines, a dog who shows it has had poor foundation may be time consuming to retrain. See my next point.

-Learning curve. While a dog may take a year in the hands of a sport/PSA/PPD handler, it isn't really cost effective to take that long to produce a K9. People take several years polishing their personal working dogs. Can you imagine the cost if a K9 took 3-5 years of training before it was ready to be on the street?

Of course, every facility and program may be different, I just know some of the reasons for dogs washing out where I work. Of course, dogs that are too soft, quirky, poor hips, etc. are a no-go. I just saw a dog get sent back due to some weird issue with his teeth, the enamel was decaying away and he was only about 13-14 months old.

They key, I suppose, is to know who you are working with buying the dog and have the ability to properly evaluate the dog when you see it.

by RDH on 08 May 2009 - 03:05

Get a real dog---Ive been looking for young adults that are return to a kennel because they are too much to handle. I just havent taken the time out to ask what the issues are with the dogs. When I say I'm limited is because I live with my folks (trying to get into dental school) and the agreement is if we get another dog (i have a dobie currently) it would have to stay in the garage. I have a 4 car garage so I have to build a kennel inside the garage for the dogs housing. This is why I don't want to purchase a puppy because I don't think its far the puppy has to live in the garage majority of his life. I plan to get a puppy in the future after graduating from dental school (if i get in and graduate). So i rather get a green dog as my starter dog to get me started. It will look good on my application for dental school if I do other activities(compete) other than school 24/7 I police washout would be good for and active pet or personal protection dog, but not for sport. I thought personal protection dogs are considered for PSA because that support focus more on real life scenario(s)??? I'm interested in males no more females for me...lol i already have a female dobie.

Slamdunc---that was a interesting but scary situation. Yeah, thats too much dog for me. Tell that too my friend she likes dog with that temperment. She loves a challenge. I'm glad things worked out with that dog. The police departments near me use only one facility for police dogs and KCzaja works for them.

Yes, Kelly heard that to that Tops have some wash outs....but they are very PRICEY!!! By the way, why do they only use german shepherds as police dogs oppose to malinois and dutchies? I was told 1 reason was the gsd is easy to convert to a new handler vs the other two breeds tend to be one handler dogs and would be hard to switch off to a new handler. Is that true? I'm starting my search now because I'm interested in buying at the end of the year.( currently construction going on in the house and have to clean up the garage to make room for a big kennel).

Thanks guys for the advice and inputs...I'm a beginner and want to be able to train in the very near future for PSA and possibly ring sport.

by Slamdunc on 08 May 2009 - 03:05

RDH, as far as dogs go we choose the best we can get. In our last school we had 4 GSD's and a Dutch Shepherd. There were no mali's available that fit our criteria. One guy was looking for a mali. I think most of the good mali's are being sold to the military for Iraq and Afghanistan. Our special forces are mainly using Mali's now. So supply is limited.

Kczaja, you make some very good points. Our Patrol handler school is about 4 months and it is a lot to teach a green dog and handler.

Jim

by VonIsengard on 08 May 2009 - 04:05

RDH, I didn't realize you were local! I'll keep an ear out for you, if you like. The kennel really only tries to charge what they pay for the dogs, and the price on prospects went way up. I know they have paid quite a bit in the past. If you are referring to the very excellent sable male recently, he did not belong to the kennel and the owner set the price, to my knowledge. They didn't import anything for the last class, got dogs locally or through local contacts. They are trying their hand at breeding their own as well.

As for the choice, to my understanding (because I asked that question myself once) is a difference in WHY a GSD works as opposed to why a mal works. Didn't ask about dutchies. I'm not in that program, so all my comments are based on observation and asking for my own curiosity and education.

I do know of someone looking to sell a black male, I believe he is about 3 or 4, though.

by RDH on 08 May 2009 - 13:05

Slamdunc--what criteria do you look for when finding a K9? I would think Malinois would be on top of the list. Yeah, my local military base contracts dutch shepherds.

KCzaja--I'm looking for dark sable. I didn't hear about the one you mentioned. I'm not too much into black. I didn't understand your answer why they pick gsd over malinois. Are you saying they prefer how a gsd works vs a malinois? Fill me in on what you asked and what your comments are. I talked to Waukegan Police dept. not that long ago and they really wouldn't answer my question why gsd over the other 2. They said to call TOPS because thats where they get their dogs..lol. When TOPS get their dogs what age are they when they import them? Do they evaluate them then start the process of training the dog for patrol work? What is the typical age when they are finish to be sold out to the public(wash out) or police dept.?

by VonIsengard on 08 May 2009 - 14:05

RDH, why don't you email me and I will anser your questions as best I can.

vonisengard@comcast.net

by Okie Amazon on 08 May 2009 - 14:05

Loganhaus has offered "wash-outs" from their facility

http://www.loganhauskennels.com/home

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