Back to Basics - Page 2

Breeding for a specific  purpose has always been the problem.

Looking for quick results is another problem.

You can read about Max all you want and still not understand what he had in mind.  

There is no going back in nature, whats done is done and could not be repeated with any accuracy, thats not how it works.

Nothing ever stays the same, it wasn't meant too.
Moons.

 

I've been wondering, does anyone think that today's mal is essentially what the GSD was in Max's day?

No.

 What are the differences, if you don't mind my asking?

(That isn't meant to sound sarcastic; I'm really wondering, but if it's too obvious and/or you don't want to type in an answer, never mind.)

I don't know enough about Mals to compare details but its like apples and oranges in my opinion.
Maybe some die hard Mal fans will come along with their ideas but the GSD was developed as a sheep herders dog.

The original GSDs where herding dogs but also living partners, companions.    They had more than one task to perform in that lifestyle.  And they had to be low maintenance which seems to be lost for most today.

I just can't compare the two in that respect.    Todays GSDs barely resemble their ancestors themselves in my opinion.
So much has changed down through the years.

 

I know a little about mals.
Mals are GREAT working dogs.  The are all about doing something, anything really.  A happy mal is a working mal.  I have owned three.  Three because I won't judge a breed on just one dog.  All three were too hyper to live in a close family setting with small children.  All three were ready to work/play 24/7.  All three would cause damage to property if they did not have enough work/play time which unfortunatly for me was to many hours in a day.  All of them were exceptionally smart and ready to learn new things.  I personally don't like the eye set and ear set of a Malinois and I am not that fond of the appricot color, but for working they are really GREAT!  For living in a home or in a very laid back social environment, I would take a GSD any day.

JMHO.

W

 "Todays GSDs barely resemble their ancestors themselves in my opinion."

I totally agree.

I was just thinking, all 3 (or 4) kinds of Belgian shepherds would likely come from similar stock as Max's dogs.  So perhaps the Mal is closer to the original sheep farmer's shepherd dog from that area?

What are the sheep farmers of today (the human shepherds) using for their shepherd dogs, in that part of the world?  Are they still pretty much "mutts" and if so, how are they healthwise?  Just wondering.

The German system is more suited to narrowing the divide between showlines and working lines than any other national system of GSDs that I am aware of. That is because German GSD breeders have more access to up to date information about the dogs training and showing in their country than most others do. Their system is designed to have older, well established dogs showing, trialing, winning and breeding while giving room for younger dogs to do the same.  A dog has a career with training, trialing and showing in Germany.  Breeders have access to a lot of information about others' dogs. The German SV is uniquely positioned to slowly change the kinds of dogs that win and breed with their Kkl requirements.

In the U.S. the biggest focus for GSDs is probably in the AKC conformation ring, in which the goal is to put a Champion in front of the dog's name. Then the dog goes on to a breeding career and may be shown again as a special. There is no requirement for trialing of any sort. Obedience of various levels or herding may be undertaken once the dog has a Ch or if the dog is not the kind that wins in the show ring. The emphasis is on winning 3 single shows, not giving the dog a career. The AKC frowns upon bitework - it's not politically correct - and the GSD parent club didn't stand up there.

The schutzhund sport for GSDs in the US has a following of - what? - 6,000 to 10,000 perhaps?  It's a small part of the US GSD world and tries to follow the SV system with varying results. In some places there are lots of good USA and WDA clubs. In large regions of this country, there are no clubs within reasonable driving distance for those who might be interested. The US is a BIG country, unlike Germany where clubs are more available to more people.

There are politics in both countries of course, because people, money and perceived power are involved. With that combination you've got politics in any endeavor. In the US, we have several problems: incorrect AKC GSDs, the split between German hochtzuchtlinie and leistungs lines, and multiple competing national GSD clubs. Even with all those problems, there are breeders in both the US and Germany who are mixing showlines and workinglines. Some showline breeders want very much to prove that showlines can work and they carefully breed for that end. IMO, some of the workingline breeders believe that they are the only true holders of the Stephanitz flame and won't even look at a showline male or female for their programs. They have that much in common with some of the AKC folks, oddly enough.

I would like to see the various strains of GSDs combined again, with the best qualities of each kept. But it will be a long haul. There's no quick fix.

Jayne,

I can't speak about Germany, but in this country sheep herders still use dogs, along with four wheelers....LOL.
And horses, possibly even helicopters. Radios and cell phones, high tech.
The ranges are fenced, there are fewer predators, the animals are raised differently and some never see an open range.
Other breeds dominate herding now such as the Australian shepherds and others.
Smaller herds on small farms.

The times have just changed.    Ranching has changed.

 Moons, good point!

I think around here, border collies are real popular too.  My former neighbor loved pointing out to me that BC's are supposedly the smartest breed, surpassing GSDs.

I still like the idea of keeping the original working ability of the GSD.