Drives, speed, and working ability - Page 2

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by realcold on 10 April 2009 - 00:04

Nerve is related to load ability. To strong is John Wayne nerve. He sees the bad guy and says "Well I think I'll wander down there and git him."  No lack of confidence here I would say. No nerve issues here either.  Now think Mike Tyson and how fast he would fly down the same street. Much more quickly loaded and hunting for bear. Nerve issues? It was not too long ago that the malis were few that could sport track  due to their hectic nature. Their breeders have done a good job of bringing them down in nerve{load ability} while still maintaining drive. This is truly the essence of these breeds.  Strong nerve is an impediment but poor nerve is a shame in these great breeds.  

MVF

by MVF on 10 April 2009 - 01:04

This may be slightly OT.

As an old sprinter-football player who was usually 50 lbs bigger than his competitors, I may have an idioscyncratic point of view here.  Bigger men don't look as fast as they are, and this is definitely true for dogs, too.

I had a big Bodo v Grafental son (1983-1996).  67.5cm, >>100 lbs (110 in middle aged).  27" neck in prime and rock solid. 

I took him to a weird place in SE Massachusetts in the late 80s for two consecutive summers.  It was a place where people RACED their dogs (all breeds).  It was about a 100 meter field and you left your dog with a holder who could handle him (I needed the big guys for my dog) and you walked/jogged the field.  You then stood at the other end of the field waving his favorite motivation (rag, ball, stick, food, etc.)  Two or three dogs ran at once and they were all timed on stopwatches.

Well, lots of different dogs showed up in those years. Whippets, sight hounds of various kinds (no Greyhounds, as I recall), boxers, dobies, shepherds, airedales, collie type dogs.  Anyway, my big bicolor male shepherd DID NOT LOOK FAST.  Not standing, and not even running.  He looked like a muscle-bound dog who should be beaten by the thinner dogs, even while he was chugging away.  YET HE WAS ONE OF THE FASTEST DOGS RACING THAT SUMMER.  He even beat a few whippets (but not usually).  He consistently beat much faster looking dobies and boxers.  I believe his 100 meter PR on grass was around 7 point something. 

Anyway, a Mal would have looked a lot faster, but maybe the race would not have been a foregone conclusion.  Our eyes can deceive us. 

To my dog's credit, he was motivated 100% to get to his ball.  He may have been closer to his envelope than less well motivated dogs.  But he was still a lot faster than he looked.


by realcold on 10 April 2009 - 03:04

MVF. Yes stop watches don't lie. A couple years ago on our wet coast which is real west like the Pacific Ocean did a time trial like you described. The high line dogs looked super fast but could  not beat the the clock against real young working dogs. They did look magnificent in losing though. Even the working owners had a hard time believing the clock.

BabyEagle4U

by BabyEagle4U on 10 April 2009 - 04:04

Well I can say, I ride horses to the extreme and the only dog with mechanics to keep up with an arab horse or a white tail on a mountain is the Malinois. German Shepherds are excellent, but not quite. If I find a herd of deer on a trail, I wanna follow it where ever it may go, they know the trail of tears, I know the way home. I don't wanna worry about if I loose my dog. The mainois can do this. Mine can. It's been mentioned though on forums I have a scrap dog by bloodline.. but Phuck demo's.
 
Course again, the dogs tend to be as extreme as the owner, witch is a good thing I'm learning.  Gotta go with the present ya know.   LMAO

Seriously, there is no comparison in physical properties. Unless the GSD had trickled that bad over the years .. I dunno

I agree with SchHbabe. We can't let bastards ruin the Malnois. I think we need to tighten up as a whole world wide. This breed is truely God sent for man.

JMO.

SchHBabe

by SchHBabe on 10 April 2009 - 15:04

Speaking of speed, every once in a while I see a glimmer of hope... yesterday evening my hubby and I went out mountain biking on hilly singletrack. We did a short loop so we ran the dogs hard. At the end of the ride on the last long hill back down to the trailhead we laid down the hammer and the dogs were in an all-out sprint to keep up. To my surprise, my 85 lb WL GSD actually kept up with hubby's Malinois. Oooo la la... if I could just get my GSD to put on a sprint like that during the long bite... (sigh)

july9000

by july9000 on 10 April 2009 - 16:04

 Comparing GSD and Malinois on agility is nonsense to me..Malinois are built for speed and agility..they are lean, square, light in body, they are more agile now and they we're more agile before..nothing has change..The only thing that have changed is that we see a lot more Mals these days because people learned about them and found them interesting for the sport world..and they are!!

First there is about 30 pound difference between the two..second..even the low drive malinois looks like they have more drive than the high energy GSD!!

I think nerves was an issue before with Mals but I do think they are much stable now..But They are more nervy than the GSD for sure..and you don't work a Malinois like you work a GSD..

THey are pretty different but capable of doing the same things..I think it all comes down to what kind of a trainer you are..about all the trainers I know love to work with GSD, but some of them lack the patience and calm it needs to like working with a Malinois..



 


by Christopher Smith on 10 April 2009 - 16:04

We can't let bastards ruin the Malnois. I think we need to tighten up as a whole world wide.

What do you mean by "tighten up"?

BabyEagle4U

by BabyEagle4U on 10 April 2009 - 18:04

You know, keep the strict requirements of the Chiens de Berger Belge like back in the day ... breed for athletic working ability and mental precision over appearance.

But I'm not a breeder. I'm just offereing an aforethought before american breeders ruin another established working line breed for show.

I've been going to some shows around my area for a couple years now.. just to see what Malinois are on display in the rings .. the shows my son and I've been to only had 2, 3 maybe 4 Mals .. so I'm led to believe the Malinois has a fresh start here in the USA as a Show Dog. I think this is a good thing. 

JMO.

Actually, I'll be doing a live stream in Harrisburg tomorrow @ the Farm Show Complex for the Herding Dogs at noon in the Equine arena. You can tune in via Skype.










by Christopher Smith on 10 April 2009 - 18:04

You know, keep the strict requirements of the Chiens de Berger Belge like back in the day ...

No, I don't know. What requirements are you talking about?

by Puputz on 10 April 2009 - 18:04

That's why a lot of the training that involves riling a dog up and getting it all hectic before a bite is lost on me. If the dog cannot maintain drive on its own, without being pressured too much into it, then why bother covering it up? 





 


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