Showlines, Working Lines - The ability to work - Page 2

SchHBabe- for the sake of arguing semantics and maybe giving you a smile, a "good show kennel" wouldn't need to try a working dog to prove something, because a "good" one would have showlines who can already work.  Perhaps "prestigious" or "well known" would have been the more appropriate adjective.

Shelley's first sentence was spot on. Gotta rushrushrush to get that title and make them babies, those bills dont pay themselves!

Mackenzie, it's a heartfelt post, and I agree with most of it, but this topic and been beaten so badly I'm tempted to make a Rihanna joke. I've said it before, I'll say it again: the perspective on showline dogs will NEVER CHANGE until more showline owners start pushing their dog and themselves into sport and having success there. I have a laundry list of exceptional showline dogs I know who are on par with working line dogs, but no one ever seems to care, and thats ok. Actions speak louder than words. I hope to see you and your SL dog a national field some day, Mackenzie.

sueincc: my first SchH dog is WG SL, and I had 0 problem titling her. Then again, in her prime, she put a smile on WL people's face's. Sometimes she still does.

Yes that is a big problem, Shelley, I agree.  KC, yes I know, there are some good ones out there.  I honestly feel that when someone does stick it out with that show line pup they learn invaluable lessons about drive building, and training in general.  Still though, from what I have seen,  most of those few people who do decide to stick it out, and those who want a dog they can be competitive with, their "next" prospect is from working lines.  It's not all about the trainers, the dogs must have the drives.

Here is video of the dog ScHBabe mentioned in her post.  This is part C from 2008 WUSV.  Score 80 points.  This is putting together a very successful trainer with a show line dog.  Of course, this might not be representative of this particular dog, since it is just one video.  It is the only video of him doing part C that I could find.  That said, to my eye, the dog just doesn't quite have "it".  Also, I wonder if even the conformation of the show lines does not inhibit the dogs in this work?  For example, the front leg movement is so animated at a run.  I know this is what creates the beautiful trotting but  Is this part of why they do not exhibit the same speed or coordination at a run?     http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7A3a8C4xMGM&feature=related

I actually don't have a problem with their being a difference between working line dogs and show line dogs.  I think some people will always place more emphasis on sport and some will place more emphasis on show conformation.  I do wish there wasn't such a great divide between the two.  I really admire those breeders who keep an eye on both sides.  I believe show line dogs should be able to do the work, though I would not expect them to be able to do it to the degree working line dogs can.  By the same token, I believe working line breeders need to pay attention to conformation, but  not to the extent the conformation interferes with the dogs ability to  work.

I guess my long winded round about "point" is no, it is not simply a matter of the dogs not being schooled properly and it's not just because they are rushed through training, though that is never a good thing.  Both sides have things that need to be improved.  I just don't think both sides need to be the same.

 

You want to better the breed then stop breeding dogs for show and start breeding for the working drive first before anything else.

lot of puppies are born each year ,majority go to pet homes why because there are not enough people doing sport or show , too much politics and bull shit and stupidness,too much time.

big trainers do not want to compete with show dogs there are lot of reasons for this.why Ivan competed with a show line makes no sence.i think he was trying to prove something and failed,not that i care what Ivan does or does not do,but here is a guy who is competeing with Malies all the time and then jumps to a show line shepherd he should go to a strong shepherd first from a working line. have a nice one.

Franz Gugnon won the BSP with a show dog named Jasko vom Stahlburg (sp?)
If the dog is good enough to win big, a lot of big name trainers don't give a crap what its lines are.

SS

 So, Shelley, did a lot of SL folks then breed to that dog? 

The dog was in the US by '88, not far from the site of the '88 Nationals. Dr. Cindy Tripp, DVM  bought him. We went to see him after the trial. He was very washed out in pigment, but gorgeous in structure and damned good in the work. Back then there really weren't that many people breeding German dogs in the US. I suspect he wasn't used much outside his immediate region.
SS

Another excellent thread, Mackenzie (which I will have to finish reading later, as I don't have time right now.)

Just wanted to thank you for starting it.

It's threads like this that keep me from leaving when things get a little too nutty on her!

I think (but it's just my opinion) that "early" show dogs, as most of us like to call them, was excellent worker too so search "error" between these day and now. Breeders, owners, politicians, trainers ... a lot of people are guilties in the story.
With Frei in 3 can we call Jasko a "pure showline dog"?haha imagine a future siegerschau with black dog like Bomber Wolfsheim or Onyx silbersee as VA like Frei in the past.These are my boys, they don't know what line are they supposed to be so I just call them my GSD.

Oops. My bad. Jasco and Franz ran 6th in the BSP, only got 292 points. I still try to emmulate Franz's about turn from the video.
Wore a hole in my carpet trying.
SS