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by katjo74 on 26 March 2009 - 06:03
Yes. German herding is with a big flock and takes an extremely athletic, skilled dog that can cover miles of ground, reliable obedience, and have a good head to work the sheep properly. They have to be able to be dependable to work sheep without having commands shouted to it constantly, also, since its often further than voice range from the shepherd. Herding trials aren't near as numerous as SchH trials. In the US, its hard to find people with a big enough herd of sheep to properly put on a German herding trial, but it seems it might be growing in popularity in the US.
AkC stuff involves a handful or two of sheep or ducks or something and isn't quite so demanding as German herding. The HIC checks for herding instinct only and is a pass/fail basis-very basic.
Your girl has some Kirschental breeding far back. I would find a herding instinct opportunity and take her to see for yourself what she responds to. It often takes a little while, but then if they've got it, it'll show. A Sheep herder usually can tell whether its there or not.
by happyday on 26 March 2009 - 12:03
by Mystere on 26 March 2009 - 17:03
by DDRshep on 27 March 2009 - 03:03
"AkC stuff involves a handful or two of sheep or ducks or something and isn't quite so demanding as German herding. The HIC checks for herding instinct only and is a pass/fail basis-very basic." This is often more difficult for good GSDs to do than little Paps, or laid back AKC showlines, because a working line is genetically engineered to have the power to work 100+ sheep, so its often like driving a Porsche to do the job of a Prius.
So like the Porsche driver, the dog feels - WTF - there's not enough action here, I am just going to push the pedal to the metal and if the cops catch me, they can give me a ticket
You'll find that the more sheep you put on the dog, the dog actually works better, then the herding instincts really come out. Its like having a born race car driver who's been driving a Prius all her life, the first time you give her a Porsche, that's when the natural comes out.
by katjo74 on 27 March 2009 - 04:03
Yes, Mystere-alot of very nice Kirschental herding bitches have been bred with high ranking show line studs for pretty good overall results over the last few decades: Yasko Farbenspeil, Esko Danischen Hof, and so forth. You don't usually see one bred with a full working male anymore, although they did some breeding a couple of years ago using the impressive sable Quay vom Haus Purkner but was done by Matthias(son of Karl, not Karl himself) and carried the name vom Haus Kirschental. I dunno their results with the progeny, but I would say they would be nice.
The dog (female) in the first link provided has show and working blood... the lines to VA2 Quanto Wienerau is show...there's DDR (East German) via Eddi vom Stephanstal, etc. Your girl Bo's Dad is combo show/working. Seems like her Mom Meggi is also show/working, considering she's got BSP dogs like Dax Baumberg (who has Karthago lines) . When you get into those older lines like that, tho, I start kinda losing it. lol. So this female is definitely show/working combo bred. It would just take me alot more time to figure & tell you precise percentages, so I won't fool with that.
In the 2nd link for a young male puppy, there's like a little Urbecke, but not enough to really influence things in my opinion. Line-bred on Fero, lots of Karthago lines--nice West German working breeding there in this young male.
LOL-DDR, that's a funny way to compair the two, but makes good sense. lol.
by happyday on 27 March 2009 - 13:03
I think her temperment would be perfect for herding..but that is just my opinion... I am partial - my male - not so sure... But I am interested in the last statement on the DDR comparision.. I am not sure what you meant - like I said -I am not up on the lines - so fill me in so I might lol as well....
by carson helmandollar on 27 March 2009 - 14:03
by katjo74 on 27 March 2009 - 19:03
Thank you, Happy-I try.
Well, one thing is, before you decide to get into some things, it is wise to know what you're working with. The different bloodline types produce different things, especially when combined.
Karthago has a really nice reputation it seems in the working field. Fero line-breeding is known for good dogs with very stable personality and work ethic (I had an import Fero daughter almost a decade ago). And since I'm predominantly a show line person, the Quanto, Eiko Kirschental, etc lines are familiar to me via way back in my own dogs' pedigrees.
With the work ethic in these two's breedings (the two dogs mentioned above), I wouldn't see why they couldn't pick up on herding to some degree. It's a natural thing-its either there or not. Some dogs have been supressed in drives to the point it can take a while for them to gear up and attempt to do anything with sheep, especially if they've never seen one before, but this does not mean they don't have it in there somewhere. Others have too much prey drive and can actually harm/kill sheep, especially if they've already had bitework training. Until they are directly exposed to the situation, I guess there's no accurate way to tell the responses to such.
by happyday on 27 March 2009 - 20:03
I did a search in my area and there is only one place that has sheep around me in my state.... I'll give them a call.... or I will go buy some pigs if they won't give me the time of day.......lol...
by Mystere on 27 March 2009 - 20:03
Buy some pigs?? EEEYOOOOO
Try this: CALL Ewetopia and ask them if they know of any herding groups or activity in your area. These people compete AND judge all over. They may well know of a similar facility or a herding club/gorup in your area. You know you have a cell phone and you aren't using all those minutes anyway! 
It will only cost you a little bit of your time. (Now you've got me talking like Lindsey Wagner and her damn beds!!)
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