It's me or the Dog - Page 2

She is faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar better than the dog whisper ding a ling. She actually has a concept of operant conditioning, re-directing behavior and letting the dog actually think abot what they are doing.

Of course you could not do this with everydog but she is a far better dog trainer the Milan. Far better.

i really like her explantions and the visualisations about certain topics like breeding, just because it's a nice dog...
and the flexibility in her approaches to problems or what problems are to some owners

I had to enter my thoughts on this one...

I prefer Cesar Millan to Victoria Stillwell, and have watched both shows.  I watch Victoria deal with a dog that is aggressive over a toy, or a place, or whatever, and the way she uses food, food, food, food, for everything, just makes me ill.  I believe in rewarding good behavior, but I also believe in correcting bad behavior.

I'm not Cesar, of course, but I've tested some of his ideas in regards to dogs, and I can tell you that the "energy' thing is valid.  If you watch the way the people act with their dogs, in both Stillwell's and Millan's shows, you can see that they are acting submissive, letting the dogs dictate what happens.  And when the humans are bad, the dogs get them in line.

Victoria's answer is to bribe them into behaving, which seems to work for some animals, granted, but you can still see the tension in the dog, even after the problem behavior has been addressed.  Cesar doesn't use force, necessarily, but he seems to have better luck correcting behavior faster than VIctoria.  He doesn't bribe them, although I have seen him use food work with a couple of really insecure dogs, that had strong food drive and low confidence.

One show of Cesar's that I saw was a really good one.  It involved a couple and their two kids, and their male GSD.  The dog wouldn't let the parents come up the stairs if he was up there, and if one parent was up there, he wouldn't let the other up.  It was his house, and he made it very clear that he was the king of the hill.  The couple was afraid of one of the kids getting hurt, or one of them, or someone else coming into the house.  So they called in Cesar.

Seems that the dog had been fine in their previous house, but when they moved, they'd left the dog with some inlaws, who apparently didn't do anything with the dog for some time.  When they finally brought him home, after who knows how long of no exercise and no real attention, they took him straight in the house and let him make himself at home.  Cesar explained to them what they had done wrong, the major thing being that the dog had no structured exercise.  Cesar prescribed to them to keep the dog downstairs, to walk him every day, and a few other things to smooth out his behaviour, and after that day, they were making good headway.  As of six weeks later, they hadn't had any more problems.  The bottom line was that the dog was trying to be the pack leader, and when the people finally stepped up the plate, he was happy to give up the position.

Regardless of what the method used, it all boils down to the same thing:  Who's the boss in the house?  If it's not the human, then something's wrong.

I have never used a prong or e-collar, training mostly with a chain slip collar.  I never used food, don't believe in it.  Oddly enough, I've always been able to train with simple praise as the reward, and my GSD was reasonably obedient, even off leash, without the use of food.  If he did something wrong, I corrected it.  If he did something right, I praised it.  And we got along great.

Crys

Sorry,  I way prefer the dog whisperer.  The dog psychology thing made a big diff in my dog, where the behavior mods didn't.  No prongs, no e-collars, not hard touches, just a reminder that i am the boss, when it comes to not being aggressive wit other dogs. and if you think about it, those corrections are behavior mods because you are redirecting attention and rewarding when you can walk by the enemy's  yard without a sideways glance.

Hmmm Sango, i don't know what behavior mods you used, but psychology kinda is behavior modification... anyways stemming from it. If you watch Victoria Stillwell closely she uses authoroty.  and yes it is all about who is the leader.
If you see this as bribe what she does, to a degree it is right, but often it is counterconditioning.
Or redirecting as you said. I agree that sometimes a reminder needs to be placed on how to behave, but this can happen in so may ways...

I have a dog that reacts to other dogs,too. and yes a reminder of who is leading is in place but then come counterconditioning and redirecting or vice versa.
 I agree sometimes a dog just has to suck things up and deal with it, but i saw episodes with Mr millan that were way more than that... a bully that was worked until exhaustion and little dogs that were forced to fight because they couldn't flight.
A GSD got "crittered" with an ecollar but you never heard anyone say he used one (if you have a good TV you can see the ecollar on the black dog- he hides the remote behind the chair....)
His cheap leashes are very agrssive, they are thin and they choke.
He often uses force where there doesn't need to be force IMO. We should know more about behavior than emplying these methods if they are not truly necessary.
One thing i liked about him at the beginning is that he made the people take their dogs for a walk...but that changed when he advertised the tredmill... If you can't walk ur dog... then don't have one... (unless u are physically not able to do so)
I watched a lot of his showes...
and i have to say lots of the comon problems can be solved with half the force he uses, i have seen stressed out dogs, exhausted on top of it and dogs beeing broke down. I personally do not agree with this.
I prefer to work with  a dog not against it.
Victoria Stillwell shows ways that are not always faster but in the long run more effective.
The owners need to be tought to behave in a different way, and this is what both have in common.
Using a bribe is not a bad thing, not need to be food, but also can be a toy or attention. whatever the dog values most. Food often goes pretty good with most dogs.
and lots of dogs learn to think using rewards. Pavlov and Skinner did a lot of work in these areas... and sadly not to many people know about them or what they did, mostly it ends after Pavlov and his allivating dogs, but not what the meaning of it was.

I handled a fair share of hard dogs, and most they learned with "bribe" (toys or food). Granted you have to have quite a strong personality, but exhausing them and choking or focing them to do things doesn't convince them of your leadership. Nor do exlusivly bribe or pleading them things to do.

That show is thebiggest crock of BS ever.  She had some poor woman eating her cereal out of a dog bowl in front of the dog to show dominance by eating first. Evberytime the dog misbehaved, they threw it in the basement, where it peed on everything down there. It's called obedience. Live it, love it.

LMAO at Kczaja!

she seems to do that all the time doesn't she?!
telling people to pretend to eat from they're dogs food so that they establish dominance.
BS!
Many people make fun of Cesar because he talks about energy, but it WORKS. read all his books if you doubt him. I did until i read them aswell.

Oh and Mr Millan sticking his head into the bowls of his pack  to demonstrate his calm assertive leadership is any different????

Wow katk9 , i must need a new tv then or my eyes checked my big screen sony hdtv doesn't cut it anymore.  i am a faithful DW fan and have never missed a dvr episode.  I have also never seen a dog choked or "broke down".  Dogs are pack animals and need a leader, most people don't step up to the challenge and that is why there is so many problem dogs.  There is nothing wrong with exersice, discipline and then affection in that order.  Dogs are born and bred to work and to walk.  They can be destructive w/o a job in life.  Personally I would not use an E collar but hey, those are not my dogs.  Why should I bribe and fatten up my dogs like a christmas ham just to listen to me and whoever lives in my home?  My dogs should be trained to be good pack FOLLOWERS and not just sit for a damn cookle and no other reason.  Glad I have such awesome dogs.  However I would not hesitate to beg Cesar for a visit.  That doggie dominatrix lady would just get a BITE command in my home.

Katk9, I can't stand his show either. I stopped watching after he advised a firehouse to heavily treadmill a young dalmation puppy to "give it a job". The only dog training show on TV that was worth a damn was the one from the Monks of New Skete. their program was centered in obedience, respect for the owner, and the premise that one must must put TIME and EFFORT into their dogs. But sadly, that's not what the average yuppie moron dog owner wants, they want to see Caesar or Victoria come and wave a magic wand over their doggie and POOF! problem solved. I'm sure thats why the monks' show got canned.  Heaven forbid we need to spend time training our dogs if we want them to behave.Those shows are a product of clever editing, nothing more.