Training Question - Page 2

Forgot to mention. While he works in prey, he gets kind of lazy, and acts like a goofball and will not be that "into" it.

The last time he did that, I had the handler put him up for awhile. When he came back out he was all fired up so I should have that fixed real soon.

It is real to these dogs. After his bite have the handler runs the dog more also to reinforce the prey. BIG circles and distance from the helper. With time the dog can do a sit hold in front of the helper and then be outed. The reward is visiting helpers shit their pants when the dog outs because of their natural defence and fight when older to a new helper. Hey, we have to have fun somewhere, right.

I have a 1/2 DDR bitch who is just a year old.  the other 1/2 is czech (she a Norbo Ben Ju granddaughtr )
I can tell you she is very much a puppy still.   She's a big goof at the moment but I feel when she matures she will be a serious girl.

most DDR or mostly DDR dogs I have had the pleasure of being around haven't matured and gotten serious about bitework till they were about 3yrs old.  they get that age and it is like a light has been turned on in their brain and they are very serious about bitework and defense.

Do you know off hand what DDR line he is from?  I had a  bitch sired by this dog http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/127134.html

I have no problem telling you I was afraid to keep her and raise her.  at 4 months old she would go right for you after a correction. not playing like a pup, this was a angry being who wanted to tear my face off.   I contacted several breeders I had trained with and who I respect  greatly for advice on how to raise this pup and to correct her properly.  ever thing I tried just pissed this dog off more. I finally said enough and returned her to her breeder.  this is one of the few DDR dogs I have seen like this. 

but most DDR lines are very sensitive to the handler giving the appearance of a soft dog, and the defense instinct doesn't kick in till well after 2-3 years old.

I say give him time.

Sorry Gard we posted at the same time. If he is lazy he is in no drive. Not acceptable.

my girl doesn't have much prey drive either.  I can't even get her to go after a rag.  but you give her some goats or sheep,  and she will work them all day

No not a drive problem. More like what Uber is saying, just acting like a big goof.

realcold, ever worked with a DDR? Uberland is right on the money. I have a now 16 month old full DDR girl and am going through the same stuff. It is a conflict of drives that occurs around this age. Switching from plain prey to more defense. This is genetical programmed, yet the dog is not mature enough to take the pressure of plain defense. You have to work in both at the same time, tick the dog off and get out a bit of fight. Not too much pressure, no hard corrections, just upping the game a notch. My girl too is very sensitive to corrections, especially in obedience. I rarely ever work with a pinch. And another big difference compared to other GSDs, they probably are the biggest "thinkers" out there. To smart for their own good.

Yes I have. The dog is in neither drive, sort of stuck in neutral.  He must be helped{pushed} to which ever drive needs the work. It gets tired with calling DDR dogs slow maturing all the time. There are many West German working and High lines that are also wired such as that. I will give you the smarts thing though but have also seen some dumb as bricks. Work all dogs as individuals if you hope to get the most out of them. There is no cookie cutter training programs. 

If you think the dog can take the pressure, why not go with what the dog is telling you? He's obviously not "buying it." Go ahead and make it more real. Give him a little bit of a fight and see if he escalates. I think you are wasting your time to try to put play into a dog who doesn't have it. My male has play/prey w/me, meaning he'll play a game of tug or bite a sleeve if I wear one, but it's a whole different ballgame w/a decoy. He does not see it as a fun game; he wants to hurt the guy. He,like Elkoor says, is too much of a "thinker" for the typical dance that decoys do. Fight him; piss him off; but don't bore him. I'm talking about my dog, not yours.

It sounds like you think he can take pressure, so why not give him a little and see what happens? I know you are training for a different purpose, but you do seem to have faith that he is stable. JMO.

In contrast to Elkoor, my dog bites just fine in a prong, absolutely couldn't care less, and actually, I need it; he is very big and I am pretty small.

WE trained today and I got his number now. I have no doubt the majority of this has to dowith his foundation.

So what I did was work him prey, prey. prey. Then I would throw the pillow to the side, he goes for it, then comes back on me (like I said, he is nicely balanced genetically). When he comes back on me, I give him a split second of the full frontal position, then run to the side, show him again, run to the other side, pick up the pillow, then bite. He stayed out at the end of the leash the whole time.

It took me a few weeks, but I got him figured out now