The Kennel Club should face a LEGAL CHALLENGE - Page 2

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 Reason .      The point i was trying to make, was exactly what you surmised ......  that we need to take it into our own hands , because it appears that our " LEADERS " are so hopelessly out of touch with the Breed, that they need a reality check, and maybe some form of protest at Crufts would bring all parties back into the real world.

          Regards Paul.

       

I was just speaking to someone in Bulldogs and have been told that they have elected a spokes person for the breed and are thinking of getting a solictor to challenge the KC.I was also told that the breeds with the changes ,their Best Of Breed will be checked before going into the the main ring and if not correct to the new standard they wont be allowed in.COULD JUST BE A RUMOUR????
I feel sorry for the judges at Crufts this year,it must be quite nerve racking judging at Crufts any year but i would think they must be feeling a lot more pressure now.

Videx seems to have confidence in the PARTNERSHIP can we be enlightened on exactly who are the PARTNERSHIP befor we reply BC BAGSD and GSDL we all know that those organisations have elected committees GSDL 8/9 B C quite a few and BAGSD loads on the EC i would like to know who went to the KC to represent our BREED that way we can determine how many hats were in the meeting and we can lobby DIRECTLY those  involved after all they took the job so should be willing to answer questions to us all
Regarding an ELECTED person that is difficult but on this board we have several people who have posted sensible suggestions on a number of thread related to this issue ie
Mo Lakin
D Payne
B Owen
P Rattigan
they are in no particular order but all would cayrry my vote they can demonstrate experience and COMMITMENT to our BREED

Videx said -
The very least the GSD Partnership should do is seek the best legal advice, not just on the Crufts issue, also on the GSD Health issue, and Monopoly issue, and the SV & FCI GSD Breed Standard issue, and of course on the "Registrations issue". 

With regard to that statement I absoloutely agree. NOW IS the time to strike, just a shame during the years we have been requesting the KC to introduce Health Issues and only register litters with Tested parents that we didnt bite the bullet and take such action as this earlier. Instead we allowed our leaders to pay lip service to the monetary requirements of the KC rather than the anatomic requirements of our breed. Shame on all of us.

However as is usual I fear Talking about it is possibly as far a step as will be taken, for this is not a step that can be taken by one individual or even a handful of individuals, it will need the support of ALL of us (or at least the majority) to stand any chance of success. It is fine to hear all about all our collective Breed Clubs Good Intentions but GOOD INTENTIONS not followed up with POSITIVE ACTION is nothing more than the usual Lip Service, you know that saying "The road to ruin is paved with good intentions" , well in our case Jemima PDE might just have proved how true that saying can really be.

Regards

Sue B

Nice one Reason , you first ! (lol), though not sure the state we are now in can be entirely blamed on any one set of representatives as we have had many over the years all treading as candidly as others.  

However what I MUST say is Leaders can only go as far as the masses allow them, they can only get away with what the masses are prepared to turn a blind eye to. I have walked away from Associations that lacked principles of integrity, openess and honesty, I will never agree with some Breed Clubs, Committee's and Councils that behave like a Secret Society, as far as I am concerned nothing a Club Committee does should be sacred or hidden from the knowledge of its members. That is not to say one should divulge every word anyone utters in a committee but on matters of importance appertaining to discussions and decisions collectively made on behalf of the breed ALL SHOULD BE REVEALED.

Over the years I have banged my head to a pulp trying to get more positive action, I have been personally involved with more BC Agenda proposals that were DISSALLOWED from been DEBATED OR VOTED UPON, than probably those of ALL OTHERS put together. For my regular display of Passion and Doggedly determination to try make us take positive steps to change our ever floundering status quo I am considered hot headed and  aggressive in my approach. Not withstanding that on occasions I agree with them, but then who wouldnt sound slightly aggressive when banging ones head on the perverbial brick wall decidedly started to become the norm rather than the exception (i.e no-one really wanted to rock the boat with change). Hence I was not the type of person our leaders really wanted around, well not unless I was banging the same drum as them anyways. More especially they didnt agree that making such loud noises in the corridors of the KC would get us anywhere at all.  Apparently, the KC do not react favourably to demands, so my drum beating ways were certainly a No, No. So, always been one to accept the opinion of others I have succumed to their better judgement by accepting that perhaps their way of the harp playing,  Softly , softly approach was the way to go. Cant say that over the past 20yrs of the BC existance that this has had much benefit to our Breed or indeed to anyone within our breed, other than the KC and possibly its elite closed shop of members, all scratching each others backs and creeping up each others .......... (please feel free to fill in you own missing word) . 

Oh how liberating actually telling it as it really can be, but then can anyone who really knows me truly say I have ever been any other way? .

Regards
Sue B

Ps - And before I leave this debate altogether, I feel I must add an important observation just made to me which is this;-
as most of you here have all just been recommending that the Breed be split or to use a better word Seperated, surely if this was to come to pass the KC Breed Standard would have to be changed anyway, so dont see the point in making too many waves about the changes to it now, when we really want to be proposing a Split and along with it the adoption of the WUSV standard for the GERMAN SHEPHERD side of the seperation. 

Just a thought , I thought I should share - as advise take it or leave it.

Regards
Sue

Sue, just an aside - where can one lay hands on an English translation of the WUSV standard?  I speak and write fairly good German but when one is playing semantics (as the KC appear to be doing) an official translation would be invaluable for comparison purposes.  I have a great deal of sympathy with your comment about not making too many waves about changes to the standard if, as you say, the changes would bring us into line with the WUSV.  I have a huge issue with the KC presenting us with a fait accompli however, and while we have not entered Crufts (it not being in my view a show to see our breed at its best) I too would have felt cheated to have been judged under different rules to those under which I thought I had entered.
Alyson

reason: The GSD Partnership representatives who attended the meeting with the Kennel Club on the 20th November 2008, to the best of my knowledge, have never been formally disclosed. This would have been a conscious decision of the representatives.

The Australian GSDCA is seeking an English translation of the SV Breed Standard directly from the SV. Perhaps our own WUSV member Clubs could do the same.

The reports I am receiving about the last GSD Breed Council meeting confirm the consistency in the conduct of their meetings have not changed, shambolic, giving the occasional hint of organisation. Still it has survived like this for over 20 years, so why change? GSD Clubs and most certainly the delegates that attend, give NO indication of wanting "rules of debate" or other "conduct of meetings" regulations. This may mean actually making some meaningful decisions for our breeds future here in the UK.

Is it any wonder that our breed is languishing and suffering in such a vacuum of meaningful activity? Is it any wonder the Kennel Club take advantage of the vacuum? Is it any surprise for us to wonder WHO assisted the Kennel Club in formulating their amendments to our GSD breed standard? Is it any wonder that personal agenda's flourish in such a vacuum? The silent, often mistaken as the polite within our breed, flourish, along with their own unique brand of inactivity, which in itself fails our breed. There appears no light on the horizon, apathy has become rooted throughout our breed, throughout the UK.

Alyson, Re - the KC presenting us with a fait accompli etc, I couldnt agree with you more. I remember the exact same feeling I had when on the day the BC *QAR was not judged according to the rules we had all entered under which had been depicted by the Clubs at a meeting called especially to vote on rules governing the running of a QAR.

As for an English translation of the WUSV standard I have always being led to understand the Full Version of the Standard given in almost every GSDLeague Handbook, or at least all the ones I have is the WUSV Standard.
 
For your info the two handbooks I have just grabbed out of my Shepherd Bookcase at random both contain the approved WUSV , FCI standard I am refering to, the year of one of these is 1989.  What might be of interest to you and others is the first paragraph immediately under the heading Breed Standard that reads as follows :-

                                                                          Breed Standard 
The German Shepherd Dog breed standard, as presented by the League and the BAGSD's to the Kennel Club; it has now been approved by the WUSV, the FCI & the SV. The Kennel Club Breed Standards Sub Committee provisionally approved its acceptance for use by the specialist clubs, on November 9th 1982. The Kennel Club Standard will be based on and not deviate from this, but it will be a shortened version.


This is the standard I cut my teeth on, it is the standard that mentions the 23' angle of the croup and the approximate 20' - 23' angle of pastern (Mo, I knew there was a reason I kept saying 20degree's along with 23degree's in the BC standards meeting. My teeth cutting memory served me better than I knew!!) 

If I can be of any further assistance to any of you , you only have to ask, I cannot guarantee I will always be able to answer, but I will certainly do my best to try. Anything I can do to help this Breed finally move forward with a Positive step I will be only too pleased to assist as much as I'm able.

Best Regards
Sue.

PLEASE NOTE -    * QAR = Quality Assessment Rally