breeding - Page 2

I guess if  I was chinese and lived in the USA you would think I should only be allowed to have one kid.  Is that the way it works for you ? Well that don't work for me.

there can be many reasons as to why a dog didn't receive their titles.  you can have the best dog in the world,  but in the hands of an inexperienced handler, or even someone who doesn't have the means to get the titles,  the dog may never see its full potential.

also you can have an exceptional trainer who can title a shit dog every other day.

who would you rather breed,  the one who has all the potential in the world, just not titled,  just not given the chance to prove itself,  or breed the one with titles who is pretty much worthless but had the best trainer in the world?

I would breed the better dog, titles or no titles.

Rules are rules, doesn't mean they are right or not.
why not use them as more of a guideline as to how you should breed, but not the end all of everything.  even the SV makes exceptions to their rules.

It is just a matter of math. It is not that a stud contributes more than 50% to the genes.

A stud can produce a thousand pups in its life time; a dam about 30-40.

There needs to be some diversity among the much smaller number of studs, but how many should there be and still have enough diversity? Very few, may be a hundred in grand total for any line of GSD's, IMO, and many times more dams to satisfy the demand for pups.

A dam has only to be very good; a stud, outstanding.

a stud can only contribute 50% of the genetic make up, no more or less.

its the mother though who raises the puppies,  she must have the best character and temperament.  it is said that no matter how good the stud is,  if you have a terrible bitch with poor character,  then the pups will take after the bitch.  if she is nervous,  or flighty,  the pups will pick up on that behavior and exhibit it themselves. 

people can argue all day about who is more valuable,  the dog or the bitch.  the dog is mainly a sperm donor.  yes you want him to be the best possible,  but as I said before it is the bitch who raises the pups.

Yes, a dam contributes to the pups more than just by genes.

But all said, when one can Fedex semen for AI, there needs to be fewer studs due to the lack of geographical barrier. For an older stud, you can also search for offspring history online.

Winners take most; more true than ever.

Con is always that you may know a local stud's temperament and history better. True too.

I don't have a problem with breeding untitled dogs as long as I own both of them, worked them my self, as well had them evaluate by someone more experience than me (second opinion is sometimes more valuable than my own as I might be dog blind :) ).

To the "rules" thing mention above: Why do we have rules? So we can break them, period. You want to fallow someone else’s rules be my guest, but count me out, and don't ever try to enforce them on me. There is more to breeding than fallowing rules; you have to sometimes think outside the box. I own a dog from both parents that were not titled, and she is a better dog than most of the dogs that I owned in the past from both titled dog breeding. Gustav makes a valid point; there are plenty of “title parents” breeding out there that produce low quality dogs. There are more things that go into breeding than titles. My opinion titles should be the last thing I would consider, because titles dose not guarantee that the dog will be of the same quality as his/her parents. Prove is always in the progeny, period.
 

Two concerns re OP.  "On breeding a non titled bitch a couple of  times because they think the dog would be able to get the titles if she had not had a rougher up bringing"  emphasis is mine.

It would be bad enough if OP wanted to try A breeding - but notice already planning for a "couple of times". As the song goes - money, money, money.

"They think" - what is the basis for their thinking. What is their experience? How long have they been in the breed? What makes them think this?

"if she had not had a rougher up bringing". If the dog has been destroyed by her upbringing that tells you she should not be bred. I have seen GSD who lived thru horrific things and still were stable, clearheaded wonderful dogs who obviously scored very high in the resilencey department. Those are nerves of steel that might be worth propogating. But if she "might" be able to get her titles then she should be able to get her titles. Otherwise just admit to yourself tand us that as one board member says you don't give a rat's ass and intend to breed her irregardless.

SSDD

The point about being from the same kennel is true

In the pedigree of my girl, in the 5th generation there were one non titled pair. Both were with the same kennel name and both had won in a show. Neither finished.

There was one pair in which the female was a Ch but the male wasn't: rare. Also of the same kennel. The male was judged to be championship material.The son become a Grand Victor (Some people here may know which dog I am refering to)

It is different when a small size breeder who breeds just a bitch looking for a stud.

then why not tell (me mr. stupid )why the germans or better yet Max established these rules or parameters to PRESERVE THE BREED.I has nothing to do with nationalities or how you like your spaghetti.I generalize when I say this but you breeders  breed untitled animals and then extort  extravegant prices for animals that do not meet the criteria!Please I am not trying to be contrite or an arse hole about this. I simply want to see honesty and integrety and the preservation of the breed. It is not about 3k for puppies from untitled parents  or 6-10k for puppies of titled parents. It is about he betterment and preservation of the breed.Well then open the flood gates of all the local petstore germanshepherd dogs for sale for 100.0 0 and who gives a rats ass about the future of the breed?I did not spend the cash and devote the time in training to see the future of the breed  decemated because of the lust for the dollar. So yous can call me all you wish I believe the breed needs protected from explotation. I am sorry :you can call me what you like;Just do not call me late for supper HarrrHarrHarrr

Max said to keep his breed a working dog,  he said nothing about them having to have titles.

So you are telling me,  a bitch or dog who spends its entire life in a field working sheep all day long is not breed worthy?  it works, but doesn't have a sch. title.  the owner is more concerned with the dogs JOB and not some title. how about the police K9 who goes on the streets and risks its life everyday,  but the handler doesn't sch. title it,  is this dog less breed worthy?

how about the one who is taken out of a kennel once or twice a week and gets a sch. title,  this dog does nothing else but sit in a kennel and wait to be taken out for training? but because it has those titles, I guess it deserves to be bred.

Raymond,  the world is not black and white.  theres a grey area and thats where most of us live.