Guarantee's in working lines?? - Page 2

I couldn't agree more, Daryl. :)

No one can guarantee, but good breeders should WARRANTY.

The whole point of warranty law is to separate the sellers who REALLY believe in their work from those who only SAY they believe in their work.  The sellers taking every possible caution are willing to WARRANTY, meaning offer a rebate of some sort if what they say does not come to fruition.  Of course, this comes at a price in the market -- a few hundred dollars or more per pup.  A breeder could even offer a warranty for a price premium -- if it is the buyer's choice, the breeder is still credible.

But if the breeder tells a long story that ends without a WARRANTY, caveat emptor!

The point of warranty law is to help consumers know who is for real and who is faking it by examining the warranties being offered by each and compare.

We should all be examining warranties on EVERYTHING in our lives, not just puppies.

I once bought a puppy who was warrantied for many things, included NERVE -- stated over and over in the sales pitch.  Didn't work out very well -- the male pup remained a submissive urinator all his life.  He had horrible dentition and needed a $500 vital pulpotomy at 6 months.  He had a hernia, too. 

FRAN ZANDO denied all claims despite the warranty and despite my persistence.  At one point, he admitted he saw the dental/jaw problem, but refused to touch the dog and examine the jaw closely for reasons I will never know.

The sire was a nice SchH3 dog and I made the horrible mistake of not evaluating the dam sufficiently.  She turned out to be nervous.  And the pup was linebred on V-1 Canto Wienerau who had littermates "nervous in the nest"  as I understand it.

Of course, I also failed to evaluate the people involved -- they taught me a sad, valuable lesson.

A warranty isn't worth much if you don't yourself have the drive to take the defective party to court.

If you want a guarantee for your dogs hips, elbows, ears etc. Are you going to guarantee the breeder that you are feeding good food and giving the dog the correct exercise for his age?

If you want a guarantee on temperament, are you willing to raise and train the dog EXSACTLY the way the breeder tells you to?

Can you guarantee that your training skills can bring out the full potential of the dog?

If you can’t guarantee these things to the breeder why should the breeder guarantee anything to you?

I think Christopher has a valid point.  Anyone asking for a guarantee on some of these things, leads me to believe that their experience level is low.

 As nearly usual, Mr. Smith is correct.   "Nurture" has a great deal to do with how a pup turns out.   I know many people who simply have NO BUSINESS with their hands on ANY puppy.  The better the prospect, the more likely they are to ruin it.   I have watched it happen.  

I also agree with Yvette--ALWAYS have a written and signed contract covering hips/elbows, dentition, ears standing and testicles for the males.  Always!!

Personally, I have two working line gsds, neither of whom I had a written contract for at all.  (Shocking, yes???)  I DO NOT RECOMMEND THAT FOR ANYONE ELSE, HOWEVER!!     It works for me because of unique circumstances.  Dealing with the same breeder, I'd do it again.  

Your job as the breeder is to partner with the buyer.  Your obligation to the puppy is to place him with a responsible home.  If they can't raise a puppy heathfully enough to realize your breeding, you should not be selling to them. 

The best breeders doing the right things will face far fewer medical issues down the road than will poor breeders -- even in the same quality homes.  And better breeders find even better homes -- so both effects combine to mean better breeders can warranty pups at a much lower risk and cost than can bad breeders.  At a warranty price of, say, $250 for hips (pay $250 now and get half price back if the dog doesn't OFA) -- the bad breeders can't afford to offer it and the good breeders can.  That is how the economics of warranty works.  An educated buyer who knows nothing about dogs knows this.  Buy from the breeder who warranties her pups: that is the single best signal that she is actually doing things right. 

A. Michael Spence recently won a Nobel prize for this research (signaling for hidden quality). 

Great thread, I must give a "golf clap" to Daryl and Christopher. Better breeders stack the deck in their favor by breeding what they know can and does work. My dog is a testiment to that. Firt sport/PPD for me and I didn't just hit the jackpot, I stacked my deck as best I could with research, the best lines and dogs I thought would fit my needs (everyones needs are different). A breeders job is anything but easy, raising those pups is allot of hard work and fitting the right home for each pup is probably the hardest. Every buyer thinks they "know" how to raise a pup right and I don't know how many "dog" people, trainers, decoys, and handlers that can't raise a pup to save their life. It's a real eye opener for sure.