UK Incest Breeding - Page 2

On the supporting our breed front - I've rung the KC today and had a bit of a go.  I didnt just speak to the poor women who are answering the phones I asked to be put through to C Kisko as she had a bit in one of the dog papers today, and was going on about all GSD breeders being Accredited, didnt get to speak to her but one of her bods.

I said to them what is the point of health screening when there is no pass/fail point.  I was told that at least the info is there for the public to see, to which I responded that many of the public dont know sod all about the scoring for hip scores and many actually think the higher the better!

This was greeted with a bit of silence and then he said he would forward the info.

LOL I understand your frustration Liebe and I'm sure you knew that calling the KC would get you nowhere, good for you anyway!

I suspect one or more keeps an eye on this board and what we're saying... bet their ears burn some days!

This incest breeding issue is a smokescreen,IMO, Xeph is correct in that it has a positive purpose when done right and Langhaar is correct in that it is so minimally done that it is least of problems. What is far more devastating to the breed is continuing linebreeding on the same 2 or 3 dogs for 10 to 15 straight generations. Why is this worse...because it permeates a large segment of the breed and is almost impossible to eradicate once the medical health and mental health start deteriorating(AND THEY WILL!!). So if you take your dog back 12 generations, and 9 or 10 of them generations start with Canto and Quanto, or say if American, it is Lance or Sundance, then this is the worse type of incest because though it is not a onetime 1-2,2-2, type breeding, it is a overly SATURATED breeding that has produced dogs that don't look or act like the GS that was originally created and its purpose. How many people on this list can take their dogs pedigree back 12 generations and see good genetic diversity??? Does'nt mean you can't have same phenotype but if genotype all goes back to Lance or Rolf then to me that is the worse kind of incest. JMO

Gustav, I totally agree with you and think that a great many others would too.  However, we have to concentrate on getting the KC to accept our BC's proposals at the moment, not on the issues of line breeding / incest.

Gustav - your comments are very true, and are something I hadnt considered properly.  It was brought to my attention that often the dogs who have epilepsy often all go back to only a few dogs but I hadnt considered it further.

Im going to try and research my dogs back and see where it gets me.

Indeed, Gustav said what I failed to say properly :-)

I find linebreeding to be MUCH more of an issue.  In the American lines way back when it was Lance and Sundance Kid....now we're seeing EVERYTHING line bred and Dallas since he's dead....there are dallas kids being bred to Dallas Grandkids etc etc, and it's getting ridiculous.  That's why our breed is so unhealthy...people can't quit linebreeding.

Outcrosses used to be routine to bring in new blood, and now everybody is so ridiculously concerned about setting kennel type instead of breed type that we're up to our necks in health issues, or dogs with poor nerves/no off switch.  I've seen some REALLY nice Asko kids, but now that he's gone, and since he's sired so many litters, my concern in the working lines is that they're going to linebreed on this dog until we've got dogs so intense nobody will be able to handle them.

I hear Asko produces good aggression and fight, pups with full calm grips, but they can be stubborn in the area of obedience.  Once they're proofed, they can be very flashy and a dream to work with, but before they, they tend to test.

There are also lots of dogs in the American lines now being linebred on Boss.  Boss was a FANTASTIC specimen of the breed, and I would REALLY like to have a kid or grandkid from him (Frozen semen left I believe), but not sure that will happen.  The longevity of the MarHaven line is absolutely FANTASTIC, as is their health, but I am concerned of what lurks behind some of it.

The problem is with inbreeding 1/2 sibblings etc that is done in the UK tends to be from untested stock, by people with no knowledge of what the lines carry. The responsible breeders in the UK which accounts for the majority on here dont do this.