Do you know and what's your opinion? - Page 2

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wuzzup

by wuzzup on 01 November 2008 - 04:11

people get killed by their spouses all the time and the dog can only sit by an watch.even the best trained dog in the world can fail you when they love all involved.really the dog cannot be held to kill it's own owner or person it loves.it is not the top of pack order,the owners are.and as responsible dog owners we all call our dogs off kids.is the dog getting mixed signals.i think so.


jletcher18

by jletcher18 on 01 November 2008 - 04:11

owner said the dog didnt take the decoy seriously,,,, have they worked the dog on what we call a "gumby" helper.   something we work while doing bark and holds.   a lot of dogs will take the decoy for real if they are presenting a threating posture.   have the decoy go limp and see what your dog will do.  if i alert my dog on someone i want them to keep them there no matter what.  keep your eyes on them dont even think of allowing them to move.  

when imprinting puppies i dont teach them that because the toy moves bark, i teach them to bark in order to make the toy move to get the bite.  

in general we are talking about difference between active aggresion and reactive aggresion.   books have been written about this.

john


wuzzup

by wuzzup on 01 November 2008 - 04:11

well maybe he needs a harder dog.love that one, sell it, give it away and start with a new one.not all dogs can do what he is asking.why torture himself and the dog.


4pack

by 4pack on 01 November 2008 - 04:11

LOL When I was a kid I could tell my dog to bite my mother, who housed, fed and funded the dog. This dog wasn't even pro trained or a bitetrained dog of "aggressive type breed". I hear of dogs that wont let parents spank their children, so I don't buy that "loved one" stuff. Dogs usually bond closer to one person.

Also when I said girlfriend, I meant the handler was a female and her friend put on a a suit, not a man who lives with his girlfriend expecting the dog to bite someone it lived with.


wuzzup

by wuzzup on 01 November 2008 - 04:11

then the dog can not get it or does not have it in him.hell i could sig my yokry on my kids when they were little.that yorky loved those kids. one of my first shepherds would get in the middle of my kids if they were fighting and make like she would tear up the first one of them that moved.if the kids were fighting with each other all i had to do was call that shepherd out and that was the end of the spat.she never bit them .she would bite anyone else who messed with my kids,even their friends . she had to be locked up when the other kids came over to play.either start at the begining with the dog or start with a new one ya can't turn a rock into gold


jletcher18

by jletcher18 on 01 November 2008 - 04:11

lol,  the stories i could tell of my wife and i trying to see if  OUR dog will protect one of us from the other one. 

john


wuzzup

by wuzzup on 01 November 2008 - 05:11

dito


NWilz

by NWilz on 01 November 2008 - 07:11

My female will bite anyone who presents a threat, young, old, man, woman, doesn't matter.  I consider her a "real world protection dog".....she will not faithfully bite a sleeve, but come at me with any weapon, or present a threat and she will bite.  She is extremely kid friendly and I think she'd struggle with biting a young person but if my fiancee, our house, or myself was in danger, she'd defend.  She did do basically a bark and hold on a kid one time who had a brilliant idea to try to steal the radio out of my truck while it was in my fenced in yard.  Really bad move on the kid's part.  She just would not let him move until I got there and called her off.  This was at my last house (really bad neighborhood) and when she caught what appeared to be a younger (20-ish) year old male trying to enter the back door, I didn't see all that happened, but I heard all of it, up to the guy hitting the fence, and saw her get his leg as he went over, he got her off, then she ripped the bottom of his pants and ripped his shoe off as he went over.  She got to keep the shoe and have a nice meal after that one. 

My male, he's more what I would call "sport oriented", if I was in danger, I feel sure he'd bite whoever threatened me.  He's never worked with a female or young adult helper to my knowledge and not sure he's a candidate for that as he's lean and 100 lbs with a crushing grip.  He will bite on command though so I'd hope he would if I told him to.  I'm not really comfortable with encouraging him to bite a kid, suit or not.  He probably would if I told him to, but I hope we're never in that situation.

Just my experience.

-Nichole


animules

by animules on 01 November 2008 - 13:11

4pack,

You bring up a great point.  I will have to make sure mine will do so, and I would NOT be making jokes if they won't but would work on the issue.  I have one pet girl that isn't interested no matter who the decoy is but will still (and has) bark and deter.


Slamdunc

by Slamdunc on 01 November 2008 - 15:11

We've had female decoys with police dogs and a few will initially get confused when a female decoy screams in a higher pitched voice than what the dog is used too.   It is a matter of training and exposing the dog to a variety of situations and decoys.   We don't teach the hold and bark for our police dogs anymore.  If the dog is sent and finds a bad guy or girl he is to bite and hold, not hold and bark.  He is also taught not to "out" when the bad guy stops moving, he holds till I call him off.  Obviously, this limits when we send the dog off leash to search.  Building searches are directed and the dog searches and clears were I send him in case an innocent person is inside.  If I am sure there are no kids, janitors, workers, etc in a school or building then he can go off lead and too bad for the suspect he finds. 

I do agree with John, I want my dog to bite whom I tell it to even if the decoy is not moving or threatning.  "Packen" means bite that person.  We will even send the dog into a hotel room with a decoy under the covers not moving.  If I say "Packen" he needs to know to engage without movement, seeing equipment or even seeing the decoy.  When we do building searches there is no equipment for the dog to smell, that makes a huge difference.  Dogs can smell a sleeve just as fast as a person it seems.  We hide the decoy were the dog can't get to him the bring the equipment for a reward after the find.

You just need to train all kinds of scenarios, find the dogs weakness and work to overcome it.  Oh and we don't target the arms.  We like the back whenever possible, it's just safer for the dog, handler and suspect.  However, you take what you can get.

JMO

Jim






 


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