The AKC Standard and Whites - Page 2

Its just like the long haired they are penalized for the coat they are all GSD's

No disrespect meant...but I am not really questining whether or not they are GSDs.  I am asking which options you would support given the choice.

the first being having the white DQ removed so they can show in conformation

the second being having the white DQ apply to registration as well (whites would be unable to be registered).

Thanks for everyone's input :)

~Cate

What other breeds seperate the pups (killed at birth, etc.) because of their color or have them altered so they can't breed in the future???  What other breeds seperate the breed it's self because of color?  Aren't all Lab's, Lab's regardless of whether they are yellow, chocolate or black?  Are other breeds are prevented from showing a dog due to it's color? 

I have to be honest with you, this sounds like Hitler Shit to me!  The narrow minds of people just don't ever seem to grow!  I would vote for #1, most people on this thread have admitted the WGSD's are in fact GSD's, some just don't personally like the color, no problem don't buy one.  Live and let live, there are obviously people who do care for them and would very much like own and show them.  Why should they be penalized because of someone elses likes and/or dislikes?  I love the Black & Tan, Rin-Tin-Tin combo, what if someone suddenly disliked that color combo and had the power/authority to eliminate it from the GSD lines and/or ability to show at AKC shows?  IMO the seperation of acceptable vs. non-acceptable colors in the breed is the same princaple Hitler had for HIS German race.  That thinking was wrong then and wrong now, it led to the deaths of many people and animals for all the wrong reasons.         

Mental soundness and health issues should be more important than color.  Who is registering the designer breeds?  If AKC is then why in the hell would they have an issue allowing WGSD's when they have been in the breed since the very inception of the breed.  I personally think if given the opportunity people can really screw up alot and this is no different.  I am not against designer breeds if that is what you want but I am afraid of the future for most breeds because I think we are going to end up with a planet of Heinz 57 dogs with multiple health issues everywhere and look back & say what the Hell happened.  I guess I just don't get the need to be a control freak over a dogs color.  I do see the importance of soundness in the GSD breed and all breeds for that matter but I don't think color has anything to do with that.  Sorry for the soap box.       

Teri  

I would support #1. I do not want to see a particular color of German Shepherd dog "become" a seperate breed. That's not what it is; it's a GSD. The color may be a fault in most people's eyes, but I would prefer to own a dog with a color fault, than a fault in temperament. How many dogs out there have a perfect scissors bite, perfect angulation, perfect proportion, perfect gait? No GSD is perfect, but "a good dog can never be a bad color".

For those that support #1 : what would you suggest for the seperated and recognized Whites in Europe?

Do you think it would be possible for those that import to have the WSSD entered into the FSS -- then shown as WSSDs along with GSDs that are white in the Show ring?

~Cate

I think by them seperating the WGSD's into another breed, they have really complicated the system!   I think this will be even more of an issue especially for importing those dogs all over the world.  So does the rest of the world conform to them or enlighten them that this is the SAME breed and keep things simple.  IMO it is much easier to just add a color to the already existing breed.  Again it isn't like this color hasn't been around for years.  

Maybe I am crazy but I am all for the KISS system; Keep It Simple Stupid. :o)  God doesn't make mistakes regardless if others think the white is a fault I'd love to hear their arguement with God over one of his creations. :o)  In fact while you are at it, add all the color variations, Liver, Blue, Panda, what ever.  If it looks like a duck & acts like a duck, it must be a duck.  Someone is going to shoot me for this one but I really think it's this simple.  You are going to have people who have their own feelings about what is acceptable and what is not and therefore some are going to kill any white, blue to liver pups at birth, you won't stop that for some time if ever but it is their choice and the choices of others won't be hindered. 

Teri    

The WSSD is recognized by the entire FCI...I believe the only three that dont are the UK, USA, and Canada.  I believe the reality is that these three countries have not conformed to the world...the GSD is after all a German Breed...and these three systems do not follow the German (and therefore FCI) standard in regards to the white coats.

I believe the reason was because whites were not allowded to be registered as German Shepherds as per the SV rules....most were actually culled at birth....which is why the allele is all but eliminated in the GSD (save the Ambred, Canbred, and UK lines).

I believe that was their simple solution to the white 'problem'.

~Cate

WSSDs are still GSDs, in my opinion. They may be called something else, but unless other breeds have been mixed in, they are just a group of German Shepherd Dogs with a smaller gene pool that have been bred for a specific color. I'm sure there's good and bad within the group. What is the FSS? None of the WSSDs I've seen look or act that different than GSDs. Some are coated and some have much nicer structure, but you see that in traditional GSD colors, too.

The white GSD I live with (Technically not my dog, but might as well be) came from a white stud and a traditional colored dam. She is a GSD that is white, not a WSSD. She has her faults (they both do), but she's still an awesome dog.

I have an import...and I can tell you that the AKC will not register her as a GSD.  They wouldnt register the majority of imports actually....which puts them in a bind....either they are or they arent GSDs...and according to the world the WSSD is a separate breed.  Thats not my opinion...just to reiterate...it just is.

The FSS is the Foundation Stock Service.

~Cate

Personally,  I think it is stupid to narrow a gene pool because of color. There are so many health problems in the breed, that narrowing the gene pool makes no sense to me. A rose by any other name is still a rose, and a GSD is a GSD, no matter the color.... JMHO, though.... Whites were used in the foundation of the breed, so is this a "do as I say and not as I do" rule? LOL.