Let's discuss this pedigree - Page 2

We've seen AKC Am-bred GSD show lines listed here that are this close, and closer.  Father/daughter or mother/son right down the line.     For me personally this is too close.  I've looked at horses bred very similar that were single purpose use, some it worked, some didn't.   Again too close for me so I passed on them.   For what it sounds like GARD want's specifically single purpose it works for him.  

1/2 sibs through the mothers side. Would be the same sort of breeding if I bred Baden to Dasti. I think  my dogs have better dogs behind them but I still wouldn't do it. OK maybe I would... but years down the road and I'd keep all the pups and cull cull cull.

I'd like to know more about her, does she pace, spin, bark non stop, escape artists, give you the finger unless you have something she wants? Any enduring qualities you have failed to tell us about her? Hickies are not impressing me so far. Basicly she sounds like the type of dog 95% of people wouldn't want or know how to deal with and she's your pet project for self torture.

I  would run, not walk, away from this pedigree. Too many dogs way too close for me.

I ran to this pedigree as fast as I could!

I'll try to parallel this breeding and the dogs in it to an equivalent GSD breeding. As best I can anyway, hypothetically....

I don't know anything about the parents. I bought this dog on a 28 second video clip and my knowlege of dogs in the pedigree.

Grandsire Rodin-- Currently one of the best producing Mals in the country

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1jqMxdP8Do

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cE0U1zWixos

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1N14aRiN9qg

10X ring 3 in France-participated in the selectiffs (Kind of something between LGA and BSP)

2nd place US FR nationals

Korung 2 (You guys know what that means)

GSD I would compare him to would be Belschik. Very very fast.

Gransire Olso (Rodin's 1/2 brother) Ring 3 in france. Don't know anything else other than he hit like a frieght train and had big grips. Rumor has it he dislocated a decoy's knee.

GSD I would compare him to would be Zender

Great-grand sire Judex

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TyweH6EALdw

Multiple FR selectiff dog. The dog that was right there every year but never won the big one, but was a top producer. Behind Judex is the Boscaille dogs. Nasty, nasty dogs from belgium. Owner of the kennel died 10 years ago. No more actuall Boscaille dogs alive that I know of. My last malinios was 1/2 Boscaille.

GSD I would compare to would be Troll Milinda

Granddam in-bred on Kali de Kama. Never saw the dog personally but those who I talked to said very, very sharp. Bred to NVBK males produced hard, hard dogs that liked to chew up their handlers.

I would compare her to something along the lines of Teikerhook dogs

Well,

from the looks of that pedigree I'd have to say.............accidents  happen............................

I'm sure your dog looks great, but what about her littermates?

Do they have hip sockets, I had bred one of my gsd's with a relative without checking the pedigree
first, and all the pups looked great until it was time to get up & walk, the 2 that I thought were
swimmers actually had no hip sockets, they were put down at 3 weeks, 1 pup had a gimp leg,
but wasn't in any pain, she went to live on a farm with a vet. tech.  There were 3 other dogs that
were fine, and as they grew I got pictures back from one owner, her dog was real healthy & nice
looking with no health problems.

It was as if I had bred my dog to herself!
 

That was about 20 years ago, but not a mistake I'd like to see again.

I really like this database, it is so easy to view all the relatives, and do test breedings, that is an
invaluable tool, I really wouldn't do a breeding like that ever again, I don't like the thought of putting
pups down, it seems also when breeding so close like that, you may not see the health problems
until the dog is fully matured.

To each his own>>>>

Well, if nothing else, this breeding should have uncovered any genetic issues and brought them to the forefront...While breeding this close does make most folks shudder, there are people who specifically will do such a breeding in order to discover what lies within the genes, good and bad.  Such breeders generally expect to cull pups at birth and any time thereafter, which is something most people don't have the stomach for doing.

From your description of your pup, it sounds as if there's no 'off' switch to her, though...I would hope that if you eventually use her for breeding, you'd do an outcross with her.  Tightening the loop any further can bring nothing good, I suspect.

.....It was as if I had bred my dog to herself!

Exactly, he was trying to re-produce his female. This was not an accident. The dogs are only 12 months old. No hips have been done that I know of. I will do mine soon. What I can tell you is she jumped my 6" back gate from a sit.

 I don't know if he culled (I think he may culled the males) he kept back the three females. I have one, the other went to a woman to do Sch and he kept the third.

Nope, no off switch on this dog

So is there anything else that anyone notices about the pedigree? I think it is an important factor.

Look and think hard someone has to see it.

gard, now you are just playing with peoples heads.

outside of health issues, which most malis are less on than the shepherds, and the dog has all the qualities you like,,,,,,what more can be said.

if i were to ever breed her i would make sure it was an outcross.  speaking of which, i have a real nice male shepherd here, call me when shes older.

john

No one has cried  that the parents are not titled!

nah, that's too obvious.  What are we all missing, Gard?