FCI 2008 - Statistical Analysis - Page 2

Depends on the selection criteria.

In HU (MEOE, since MNJK can only fo to the WUSV,not WUSV and FCI like the MEOE) , the 1st 3 GSDs go to the WUSV and the FCI, it is the top 5 dogs (no matter what breeding)in the Qualifiers.

In the US (for SCH USA, since they are the only FCI team) - this year, the top 3 (from the qualification scores) GSDs were the WUSV team and the next set of scores were the FCI team for the GSDs. 

 

 

 

 

I would love to have the opportunity to work some statistics on previous FCI competitions. I will not argue that the FCI represents the "best" of either breed. However, to make a head-to-head comparison I need data from a competition that is open to all breeds. It is not very useful to attempt to compare scores at a GSD-only competition to one that is open to only Malinois. Also, to make this analysis meaningful, lots of data is required due to the natural variability in performances. That is why I stated I could draw no conclusions at all from the other four breeds represented. If someone could direct me to the results of past FCI competitions, or any other large open-breed competition I would be happy to repeat the analysis, and perhaps with different results. Yvette

Christopher Smith

If we can keep this civil, I'd appreciate it. 

I have a question for you.  I understand that breeding of the GSD has changed a bit over the years.  I do concede that, but hasn't the sport also changed?  At one point it was mainly GSDs and the judging was accordingly.  At one point, judges didn't care if you had extreme focus on your dog while doing every single exercise.  Hell, at one point, the judges didn't care if your dog even looked up at you once, as long as the exercise was completed and the dog had the right temp.

All of a sudden some guy came out and the dog had focus.  A judge picked it up and it has become what it is today.  The Malinois is a different dog.  When he entered into the Sch ring, I think it gave the judges a different look once again.  A positive characteristic that the judges liked and GSD breeders have been trying to impliment into their dogs ever since. 

I don't know which breed is better or worse.  I only know that I prefer the GSD.  I understand that there are probably too many breeders in this world and the percentage of good breedings is low, but I think I look at the sport as much as the breeders.  Breeders tailor their breedings to the needs of the buyers.

Very interesting. One of these days I'm gonna have to try a Mali. I hope I get one with super-solid nerves. My own nerves are so bad my GSD's look at me funny all the time, especially when they do the gun sureness test and I try to leave the field.

SS

Don, you bring up the sport as an indicator of how the judging has possibly changed to favor the Malinios.

I have been making this statement for awhile. I believe one of the primary factors of the Malinios surpassing the GSD is "The Sport" "The Sport" is what is limiting your breed. If trainers and breeders began participating in other sports, and breeding for the weaknesses shown by participating in other sports, you will see an improvement in the breed.

People talk about Malinios being "nervy" that is a discussion in and of itself. I can tell you without a doubt, in my experience environemental stability (specifically enclosed spaces, such as closets and going under houses) is a BIG problem with GSD's. I see the same thing in some of the french line Malinios, who only breed and compete in FR. The difference there is the French breed for so much ridiculous drive, the can get over just about anything.

In short, "The Sport" limits an overall test of a dog, therefor limiting the breed. If you don't test for it, see the weakness, and breed to improve those weaknesses you weaken the breed overall.

Food for thought

GARD

I wouldn't put it in the terms of favoring the Mal, but more along the lines that the Mals bring something to the table that is noticed by the judges. 

Same thing, I know.  I just don't want someone to misinterpret it as the mals get preferential judging.

Yvette,

Thanks for the number crunching.  It would be interesting, though statistically of little value, to crunch the numbers for the BSP compared to what the comparable Mali's competition is.

 

I like watching Mal's work, they add a spark sometimes not seen in the GSD.   The horse industry has been through similar "fads" if you want to call it that.  Any time there are competitions judges will find something they like and breeders/trainers will try to meet the current expectations.  Sometimes it's for the better, sometimes not.....  I'll stick with my GSD's and enjoy watching all good working dogs, a good dog is a good dog.

 

The walk down memory lane was great. Real good times. We can all wax longingly about the things that once were and our hopes and dreams for a better tomorrow. But it doesn’t change the facts of what I wrote. The numbers don’t lie.

I am aware of the changes schutzhund has made. But who makes those changes? Who is at the forefront? Hint...it starts with an S and ends with a V. So why would they change the sport? And have all sports changed? The GSD was once the dominate breed in french ring and KNPV. What happened in those sports? A GSD has yet to ever make it to the highest level of NVBK. Why is it that malinois dominates the GSD in all of the AKC performance events?

Has everything changed? Because if you are saying that, then what you are saying is that the GSD has become obsolete. The only other option that I can think of is that Malinois people are better trainers and handlers.

 

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Christopher Smith

If we can keep this civil, I'd appreciate it. 

I have a question for you.  I understand that breeding of the GSD has changed a bit over the years.  I do concede that, but hasn't the sport also changed?  At one point it was mainly GSDs and the judging was accordingly.  At one point, judges didn't care if you had extreme focus on your dog while doing every single exercise.  Hell, at one point, the judges didn't care if your dog even looked up at you once, as long as the exercise was completed and the dog had the right temp.

All of a sudden some guy came out and the dog had focus.  A judge picked it up and it has become what it is today.  The Malinois is a different dog.  When he entered into the Sch ring, I think it gave the judges a different look once again.  A positive characteristic that the judges liked and GSD breeders have been trying to impliment into their dogs ever since. 

I don't know which breed is better or worse.  I only know that I prefer the GSD.  I understand that there are probably too many breeders in this world and the percentage of good breedings is low, but I think I look at the sport as much as the breeders.  Breeders tailor their breedings to the needs of the buyers

 

Chistopher,

Statistics are wonderful but as a person progresses in the sport you need to pick the breed which will work for the handler and give them the best chance on success... otherwise there would just be one breed period.  Yes maybe some have better success with their mals and congrats to those that do.  I hope that you have all the success that you can with the breed of your choice.

But agian just because Eric Clapton can play a stratocaster extremely well that does'nt mean that a Les Paul wont work better for me...Not saying that I would be better but using the device that fits my style in a more appropiate manner would allow me to achieve the best results..

Jeff

 

 

Yvette, nice job.  Very interesting information.  By the way, I really enjoyed your articles in SchH USA.  Keep it up.

Jim