Handler Aggression? - Page 2

I cant beleive that there are handlers out there that like this type of dog.I also know of another Crok line dog that a helper in my old club had and he had to pts after so many months of trying this and trying that. He showed me one day how this dog was when it came to even a light correction.Unbeleivable,this dog was sold as an adult and this person was NEVER told of this problem with the dog.Its sickening what some will do for that ol mighty dollar.How dare you endanger someone OR someones family by NOT letting someone know of this kind of issue.I guess it goes back to the old "you get all kinds" in this world and some should out and out be pts,i mean the people who pass off dogs like this.I feel that this is a FKD up temperment and that NO ONE should consider breeding a dog like this.This is not what the GSD is about,no matter what the lines are.Have a nice evening.

please do a search on this issue.  there are many different views on handler aggresion, and all of them should be explored before coming to the conclusion that if a dog bites its handler it has a nerve issue.

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/bulletins_read/212203.html#212273

good thread worth reading all of the points made.

john

A handler aggressive dog is NOT necessarily a nervy dog, just a badly trained one. Period.

Handler aggression can have many causes: lack of adequate socialization in a normally temperamented alpha type GSD; or a somewhat nervy fear biter with psychomotor epilepsy (a very dangerous combination); inadequate or wrong training; or it can be a genetically based "gangster dog", either feral or non-feral. There are two varieties of gangsters, the first being an alpha that seeks and demands territorial dominance and experiences no fear (won't fit into the dog's head>>non-feral). The second gangster is a "feral type" with an innate inability to form an attachment to his owner or handler and is a dog that is always itching for a good fight with anyone, always looking for any weakness. If he sees weakness in his owner or handler he may attack to establish complete dominance. These dogs are truly dangerous and make the best perimeter dogs in high security areas such a nuclear facilities and "s.c.i." facilities. The most well known feral gangster was the beautiful Ufo Fiemereck of the 13A line, a line discarded for this trait. Ufo was most likely the toughest showline GSD in Germany and likely the toughest GSD ever imported into the USA (brought in by Joseph and Adam Kuhns of Chicago, if I remember correctly). Ufo was a stallion of a male with excellent confirmation. He produced this very bad trait feral ferociousness in his progeny. Ufo sent a few handlers to hospital emergency rooms in his day. He looked very innocent and cute but had extreme fire in his eyes. There was no fooling with this dog. He was a truly scary GSD. Another gangster dog who was absolutely georgeous and had very good sidegait was V Lenin du val Danzin. He was a non-feral gangster IMO, and produced normal but very dominant, very courageous, very tough, correctly temperamented puppies, some of them absolutely fearless like him. He was not a feral type gangster and had proven himself superior in French brevet and the SV showring, if I remember correctly. Lenin always itched for a good fight and took many a helper down in his days. His combination of extreme courage, and dominance with superb conformation made him a legend to many that knew the dog and saw him shown. He is known to have pulled a few "tricks" during his days. I always though his brevet training brought out the worst him him and that he would not have pulled tricks otherwise. Folks often say every dog and animal experiences fear. Well sorry to disagree but some of the gangster dogs I have seeen close up and known about are not capable of it. If you think otherwise then you have never owned a true gangster or seen them do their thing.

This topic has been beat to death. Most of the time it is NOT a nerve issue in my opinion

Well said Preston.

 I agree with Preston.  I've been in contact with those gangster dogs when I was working  in a no kiil shelter ( no wonder why these dogs end up there!) and in a k9 center who was doing a lot of security contract.  you don't want to mess with those guys..they can really feel your weekness and test you all the time. They have their place in the world and make excellent security dogs .  

I wouldn't want to own one!!  i much prefer the sporting type..sound and balance..

Julie