Which Dog is Correct? - Page 2

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/bulletins_read/85383.html#85426

http://www.vallendarerhoehe.de/index.html

Jane Steffehhagen is german..She owns Steffen-Haus ...the Bravos dogs are two different dogs...I hae a dog out of Jada and Jane has talked to me many times...she is former owner of a kennel in Germany and here also..She is 76 yrs old and doesnt own the kennel in Germany ..any longer.  Jane sent me a copy of photos and pedigrees of "Jada" & "Bravos" as well as the pedigree of the litter that my male ;s mom came out of...which was (Hoss and Jada) / www.steffen-Haus.com.There are two Bravos's in the pedigree database..This one belongs to Jane Steffenhagen. Area code on her phone has changed now./

I don't know the person who named the second Bravos but it has caused a lot of confusion over the years...You have look at the date of birth and the titles to know which one is which.. Note the In Residence with in lower right hand corner.

Jane is the real deal. SHe is  a german kennel , not just some american naming her dogs . Steffen-Haus *has an  r in a circle above the last letter....means   REGISTERED, belongs to her. She told me about her kennel in Germany and selling it.but I dont remember who or when or what.

All of her ads are clearly marked with her logos and her addy..Jane's hard work over the years here in USA clearly let her hold Top Kennel and second place for Top many years in a row..She certainly has done mega to improve and keep the quality of the german shepherd at the top.

Here is the Korung fur den Deutschen Schaferhund   Spitzen V-1  Bravos Vom Steffen-Haus SchH 111, KK1-la, "a",  1994 Vize Jugendklasse Sieger, Bremen, Germany ( note  1. Allgeneubes     a. Widerristhohe.....

This is the correct pedigree..These are all one piece of paper that Jane sent to me many years, ago.. Pic  and Korung on one side and the pedigree on the back side.

KC zaja

I would STRESS I WAS NOT critising the steffan -haus kennels in any way, I applaud whole heartedly anyone who is actively improving the breed in the states whether it be by breeding to correect german lines or importing excellant stock. If you RE-READ my original message no where did I mention any particular kennel, that is what YOU have assumed, all I said was why do 'some' breeders in America use german terms for naming their dogs IF they are bred in America ? why not use American names thus making it easier for people ie the pet owning public to grasp if a dog is GERMAN bred or not, without them having to look at pedigrees which let's be honest ,most would not understand anyway 

No, let's really be honest, you were caught with your foot in your mouth.

KCzaja - I think that is a bit OTT.

I actually agree with Singe - I've looked at adverts by name and though the dog was european and have gone to follow them up only to realise that in fact they are in the US.

I know someone who has used Bravos vom Steffen Haus (german) in their lines and I also got very confused when I was researching the pedigree.

Here in the UK the KC naming system means that the Kennel Name goes first followed by the dogs name and if the dog has gone to a new home then their kennel name can be added on the back.  Its obvious with the other European dogs that the dogs name is first and then the Kennel Name Last.

Please can you explain what the normal process is in the US.

KC zaja.

If I have something to say about specific kennels, dogs etc believe me I will say it so their is NO doubt about what I mean, even to people who seem to read into messsages what is not there in print.

Just so simpletons understand the point I was making, it being -       why some USA kennels use names to give the impression that a dog was German bred ie 'something Von something', this is misleading  for people who haven't access to pedigree searches ie the majority of pet owners, also time wasting  as BEEPY said having to look up a dog only to find that it is USA bred, & often with very little German background.

Singe, if you'd take a look at some (GASP!) American line AKC shepherd's pedigrees, you will see they DO have English-sounding names, unless there is an imported ancestor in the pedigree. If a dog does have a German name, 98% of the time, it's because it was an import, or from pure German lines parents. Yes, there are exceptions to that rule, I know. I happen to own one. My 19 month old bitch is out of an imported sire and an American bred bitch. The breeder calls his kennel "Bayou Land" and said I had to use "vom Bayou Land"  as part of her name. So, she is officially Star of Hope vom Bayou Land.

And I don't care how much you squirm: it is impossible to read your post and NOT think you were criticizing Steffen-Haus. Maybe you'll do your homework first next time. There's far, far too many people on this board who shoot from the hip first and apologize later, if at all.

Both dogs are correct, including their photos.

I find it most unfortunate that people think they should tamper with existing pedigrees without asking for clarification first. A lot of other pedigrees depend on both dogs. Both dogs were or are being used extensively as studs. So whoever feels like "correcting" this info should think about that.

1) Bravos vom Steffen-Haus, dob: April 09, 1993 - son of VA-Hoss vom Hasenborn and V-1 Dhorne du Clos de Savoie, 1994 International Vice Youth Sieger, breeder: Jane Steffenhagen. I watched this dog in the stadium in 1994 and was very happy and proud for Jane Steffenhagen to have that much success with her homebred dog.

2) Bravos vom Steffen Haus, dob: February 10, 2003 - son of VA-Esko vom Dänischen Hof and V-Holly von der Maleiche, V-1 at the 2006 World Sieger Show, breeder: Brigitte Hoenig. As one of the most important Esko-sons, this dog has produced some outstanding progeny and is seen in a lot of pedigrees.

There is a U.S. Steffen-Haus kennel and a German Steffen Haus kennel. There are a few other examples as well, Fürstenberg - one in the U.S. and one in Germany, Silbersee - one in the U.S. and one in East Germany (the German one does not breed much or anything at all, but it still exists on paper).

The SV distinguishes between these different kennels by putting the discription "(USA)" behind the names in their database.

So, hopefully the info on both Bravos dogs will be corrected accordingly.

Chris