White Shepherd? - Page 2

Thanks Bsceltic for helping clearing every thing up. I really appreciate it.

Thanks again to the both of you,
Rocky

there has been lots of discussion on the disqualifying colors, panda's, etc.  just do a search......

Nice link German breeder of White Shepherds http://www.white-shepherds.com/html/main_engl.htm

Animules-
I did do some research, just not enough I guess. I personally do not care about color. Color is color. Every GSD is beautiful to me, but some registeration do not go with that policy. So I looked around a bit. I even looked on here under different searches. I just thought of asking why Whites seem to be picked at more than Blues, Livers, and Pandas.  I just could not find an good answer to that question, so I just asked. I am starting to think it is more of an opinion of breeders and owners as to which color they do not like. I would not bred Livers, Blue or Pandas, but if I wanted to do show, I would consider whites. I really like the basic colors; black/tan, sables and pure blacks. I guess it really depends on what the new owners are looking for in their next dog. I will continue to do research though until I feel like my brain can no longer handle it. =)

Yukonhausberg-
That breeder has some gorgeous whites! Thank you for sharing that with me!

Rocky

There's several  groups dedicated to White Shepherds in the US...

the AWSA is focused on becoming a seperate breed, and has quite a good history on the breed/variety on their site http://www.awsaclub.com/history.htm

The WGSDCA (Formerly the ASCII) is focused on keeping white as German Shepherds, but would prefer seperate variety in showing... has been knocked down repeatedly by the GSDCA when suggested, and a number of members got tired of trying and broke off to join the AWSA, double registering their dogs with UKC. http://www.wgsdca.org/ is their site

The CWSC is the Canadian White club.  They actually got whites readmitted to show in CKC shows, and finished several Champions.  HUGE advances in genetic breed flaws including the breakthru in Spinal Miopathy and Cardiac Stenosis  and Von Wildebrand's were widely participated in by Canadian breeders. http://www.whiteshepherdclub.ca/links.html

While all the North Americans were arguing about Seperate vs Variety for Whites... a number of dogs were exported back to Europe, especially Holland and Switzerland.  The Swiss applied to the International Kennel Club for acceptance as a seperate breed, which was granted... dogs registered with the Swiss White Shepherd club can compete in their shows now. However back here in the US, German Shepherds who are white can NOT enter those shows, as they're a different breed. (though their 2nd cousins who were cross registered CAN).  They can show in any AKC working trials... though the GSDCA has barred them from showing @ their National (after one won!)   The top Swiss White Shepherds are 100% German Shepherd background... just the name's changed so they can be shown...

White is a recessive... If two dark dogs produce a white BOTH carry the gene for white... if a White is bred to another white all you'll EVER get are Whites. So if an AKC White German Shepherd is bred to a dark color AKC German Shepherd the babies are German Shepherds whatever color they come out... but if you bred a Swiss White Shepherd to a dark color AKC German Shepherd the pups would not!!  (Unless the Swiss White is still cross registered with AKC as a German Shepherd)

There was a programme on TV in the UK a couple of years ago, showing the training of donation dogs and those taken from rescue shelters etc.  I found it a real eye opener, as it wasnt just GSD's but spaniels rotties etc.  Some of the dogs made the grade and one Rottie was so powerful he became what was known as a Northern Ireland dog - he didnt just take the arm presented by the 1st bit he could get hold of and who ever was the "target" had to wear a full body suit and head cage he was so powerful.

However they stated that the Military had never passed a white german shepherd as fit to serve, and apparently at that time nor had any of the police forces or prisons.  When they were pushed to the limit they always failed in temperment and became slightly unstable in some way and could not be relied on.  The reason the subject came up was the fact that they had been given a white GSD and when push came to shove nervous agression came to the forefront and the dog had to be rehomed away from the services.  The said that what they had demonstrated had been seen many times before.

The white club here in the USA has really impressed me. They are very concerned about the health of the breed, and hold genetic and health conferences all the time. They all particpate in their health registry, which, alas, owners of standard GSDS do not do.

"In the original Standard only the Alt Deutsche races  from the North and Eastern regions, were allowed to be white ."

This is incorrect.  The white coats were originally accepted under the standard...and were not a disqualification until the 30's.  Berneo v. Seewise was the first SV registered white.

Here in the United States whites have been used in Search and Rescue (see k9 heroes of 911), Police K9, and Service.  In Europe they serve in the military, police, SAR, as service dogs and as guide dogs.  A few years ago the sire of the majority of the Guide dogs in Holland was a WSSD, my own females half sister is in fact in the Dutch Guide School now, and having been to Europe myself I have seen WSSDs serve in the capacity of police work.

As far as the clubs -- there are two clubs who wish to remain members of the GSD - the WGSDCA and the WGSDCII.  AWSA and the WSCC (White Shepherd Club of Canada is WSCC, not CWSC) are both for separation from the GSD....which we have been trying to attain but are unable because the GSDCA continues to vote to prevent us from separating.

SO - in the United States almost all of the Whites Shepherds are dual registered with AWSA and the UKC as White Shepherds and the AKC as German Shepherds.  In Europe however they have become a provisionally accepted breed called the White Swiss Shepherd Dog (WSSD).  Most of their lines trace back to American lines, but as Switzerland was the first country to recognize them, that is what the breed was named for.  Many of the KCs will accept AWSA paperwork to import WSSDs, but not AKC paperwork.  Along those same lines, the AKC doesnt recognize the breed.  In Europe there are also several working dogs - those are the lines that I am trying to import.  As far as the structure -- it remains the same accross all the lines with some small changes.  All the dogs tend to have straight, flat toplines and all the dogs tend to have a great deal less angulation in the rear.  Less emphasis is put on the side gait and more on the forward and back gaits....coats are also acceptable.

I have two whites, and Import female from Holland, and a home bred male from KY.  I may be entering into a co-ownership on another female that has potential in the future.  They're both young...but I am training them for Protection Sport (SDA / SchH) and for Herding...which they are both doing well in.  I am a member of AWSA and the UWSC...and am for separation.  I'm not really keen on what has happened to the GSD in the AKC and our standard is written to prevent stuff like that happening as much as possible.

Yuko - AMB is an awsome breeder.  She brought her dogs over from Germany and now resides in Canada...but all her dogs are WSSD stock.  One of her females is related to my own.

As far as the White Shepherd Genetics Project -- that is a good place to look.  Alot of the breeders who submit to it are as focused as Judy to make sure that our breed has as few health issues as possible...and it is something that helps everyone make better breeding decisions in terms of the health aspect.

I will say this though...not too keen on the person you talked about breeding the dog before she was 2yrs old.  If you are going to look for a white look to someone who breeds with something in terms of titles behind them and definetley with all the health tests behind them...in the US there is alot of Herding, Obedience and Agility....SchH is only just starting to take hold....in Europe there is alot of SchH and Ring...and if you need suggestions of breeders from here and in Europe, I can throw some at you.

~Cate

Thank you all! I appreciate all your help. It all is making more sense now.

Rocky

Hi Cate

''In the original Standard only the Alt Deutsche races  from the North and Eastern regions, were allowed to be white ."

This is incorrect.  The white coats were originally accepted under the standard...and were not a disqualification until the 30's.  Berneo v. Seewise was the first SV registered white.''

Soz it was late yes you are right it was in the XI Koerbuch that the standard had been changed to only allowing the long-coated Old German Dogs to be white.

prior to this you could register black, iron-grey, cinder grey, fawn, brown chestnut, either self coloured or with marrkings also white, white mixed with dark spots etc.

Pam