Interesting article, please comment... - Page 2

http://rapidshare.com/files/140193207/Binder1.pdf

the above link is to the article in the DSM. Just click the free option and wait about 60 seconds. The pictures alone are worth the minutes wait. I'm still trying to find info on the actual test Amnon came up with but from what the article describes, seems interesting and worth my time to dig around more.

Wow, I'm really surprised this isn't getting more discusion.

Hi 4pack I had commented elsewhere;

''Theres probably quite a few on here that disagree with him, but we should all reflect on his words and what he says makes sense.''
 

I dont show, breed or work in the sense that many of you do,  I like to take my dogs out in the field to hunt for pheasant & hare, those same dogs also have to switch off from hunting and spend time in with my granchildren or work as therapy dogs. So I need a dog which is not just physically active with a strong prey drive, but mentaly stable to be around my grandchildren and also to improve the mental well being of strangers whilst completing therapy work.

Above all else I want a dog to be physically and mentally well and live a long life, not to be pts early due to genetic conditions that end up either crippling or killing the dog.

Pam

4pack,

of course its not getting more attention, it has nothing to do with what your dog looks like,  the political scene, and no one can call each others names when it comes to a topic worth discussion.

anyway,  i know nothing about the author.   as many have said already, how are you going to determine all of these things.  you will always have human interference ( i meant influence, no i meant interpitation) in any evaluation process. 

as my father way always found of telling us "the path to hell is paved with good intentions"

look at what Helmut Raiser is trying to do with the SV2000. 

the fact of the matter is way too many people are too set in thier ways.  yes, new ideas will always come around.  some will stick, but most will fail due to the lack of people sticking with it.  its easier to fall back to what we know, then to move foward with something that we dont know where it will end.

john

So true John but I'm curious as to this actual test, can't find it anywhere yet, waiting for an email from the authors "wife" if I'm not assuming wrong, could be his daughter.  I don't know much about the author either, except he is located in Israel, I have viewed his website and his dogs(even the bitches) appear to be as strong as black coffee. Anyway even just for my own use, I love new tests. I could care less what the next Bozo does with his/her dogs. You don't need a Sch 3 for me to know Dar is the shiznit. God knows my dogs wont ever get one cause I can't stand the sport and maybe, just maybe Chris will get a 3 on that world class bitch he keeps in the basement. Shit, we all got lives away from the dogs and how many untitled dogs (due to no fault of their own) deserve more recognition than these Siegers? Makes me wanna blow chunks when I think hard about it.

so true,

thats one of the reasons my wife and I like to play in other avenues besides schutzhund.  we have some friends that are into american bulldogs, presia's, and pits.  we love to cross train for some of thier titles.  keeps things fresh and shows that the bred can do more than one sport.   we put cgc's on our dogs, and joann has done akc ob.  also.  we are looking into dock diving, and some psa in the future.  cara would be great at it.

 one of my goals is to show the diversity of EACH dog and not just the bred.

john

who you vote for    99 replies

newbie, turned politics 85 replies

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topic worth discussion,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,15 replies

PRICELESS  !!!!!!!!!!

john

When ever you talk about change you have people that are opened minded, then you have others that are not and then there is those who really don't want to post as it could turn ugly (as we all know how this could go).

I am all for change as long as it is in the right direction. I agree with what was said in the post and also what John is saying. This breed is not the best at onething but good at everything. Too many forget that!! People don't like AKC but AKC has more events to offer for this breed as we can do most!

Me personally I love seeing a dog that has different titles on him from SchH to  rally, to  Agility, to herding, to Therapy to Tracking and IPO . One dog that comes is Andy .  It shows that the dog is verstile and can do more then just one sport

We were just talking about this and one thing that came up is ScHH the decoyer is always in the last blind  and every dog knows that. But what IF they had two decoyers?  and one decoyer was a friendly person? Then what? How clear headed would that dog have to be?  or what about people on the field as the dog is running the blinds doing distractions?

There are many things that could test a dogs temperament and skills we just need creative people to come up with a style that is out of the norm.

A test that says -  station 1 a b and or c can . Station 2 a b and or c can happen.   this way the test can always be mixed up and interesting.

Well those are just my thoughts.

EK

Okay John.  I'll bite.

Re the article - great concept.  The problem with any titles, be it from schutzhund or any type of reality trialing is in the evaluation.  The evaluation must be done by a human which in and of itself calls for human judgement.  Human judgement is based for the most part on experience.  Therein lies the problem.  So while reality testing may be a great idea, you will still possibly have those that will evaluate with poor judgement.    If Schutzhund is the demise of the German Shepherd, as insinuated, it would have happened a long time ago as it is not a new sport.    But what has happened is you have evaluators (not all - generalizing here) who can not read dogs, who don't train dogs, or simply don't care (we all know what 70/70/80 means) - giving much creedence to Raiser's idea of competency centers. 

Karla

Some people feel that the large point spread (1-100) is part of the problem, that encourages the competitive aspect and relies overly much on repetition and conditioning. A pass/fail evaluation in more numerous aspects would be better than a 1-100 spread in three phases. For myself, I'd prefer to see something like above, "insufficient", "sufficient", "good", and "pronounced" to better weigh the breeding strengths and weaknesses on a couple dozen points of consideration. While each phase of the sport relies on many of these characteristics in unison, a score of "80" is not going to tell you much about a single aspect you might wish to strengthen in your breeding, without much more intimate knowledge of the dog in work (in trial AND practice). Take focus off the points-competitive mentality of the sports-doers, and it might actually result in some breed improvement, becoming more about the dog and less about the training methodology.