active aggression - Page 2

that is if the dog is not "unstable"

cheers

Mike

That is a load.  The best helpers and trainers know that you need a balanced dog.  I don't buy the statement that most people in the US are training on Prey alone.  Yes, many believe that they can train a sport dog on prey alone.  The sad fact is that most of these people do not know how to read a dog, don't understand the terms they use and don't know what drive they are working a dog in.   

read the article by winkler et al but take it with a pinch of salt. Your dog is going to be different than what an article or thin book can teach you. Even Helmut Raiser cannot predict what each dog will behave like. As I said this is the highly inexact science. Each dog is different even within littermates. Yet there are breedings where dogs are being churned out like sport machines. There are breeders who have perfected this inexact science too and even cloning would fail the gut feels of such breeders. This is the contradiction today.

Please don;t feel elated that you have a Schutzhund title for a dog. Yes the sport, fun, enthusiasim is all fine to enjoy but at the end of the day Schutzhund is NOT good for our working dogs remember that.

cheers

To furthur demonstrate what I mean, I have heard people say they are going to work a dog in prey alone.  They talk about it before they bring the dog out to introduce it to the bark and hold.  "prey only,  Mike"--------"yes I know, prey only, Peter"...............Three minutes later, they're on the field.  The helper is running around like someone shoved a hot pepper up his rear, he  runs past the dog and makes him miss.  They do it again, then all of a sudden the helper comes in on a frontal.  Mike tells Peter that he will give Sparky the bite when there is a loose line and the dog is barking in front of him. 

Vikram

I'm not looking for an argument, but what the hell are you talking about?

Prey drive, Defense drive, fight drive all separate drives...prey is the first to show in a puppy chasing things, defense drive is when the dog is older and put in a threatening manner and it will react out of defense...flight drive some dogs never have but to me is the most important of the drives this is usually the last drive to kick in...taking the fight to the man...fight drive is a good thing and getting rare to find in todays german shepherds some get by with prey only on the field of schutzhund sport and never demonstrate actual fight  drive...this is not to label all schutzhund dogs as weak dogs but there is a fair amount who would not be able to do real protection work .

check out the nerves of the dog... are they stable does he have a clear head ...ask those questions..dogs with fight drive I do not put as being automatic handler aggressive...this is more of a nerve issue that can be in soft dogs as well as hard dogs and not related as above

Temperament and nerves are the number one fault of the shepherd today to sound like a broken record. No matter the hardness of the dog if his head is clear you should be fine.  

Marlene

http://www.workingdogs.com/dom1.htm

another article

enjoy

Excellent article really does explain the differences...my dog is a hard dog and has the social aggression...the alpha  dominate dog and was never flashy in his obedience because of this... but I prefer a hard dog overall with solid nerves..so so important...he was trained in schutzhund at a top sport level but his personal protection instincts are awsome...his clear head to be so hard is what I like most about the dog. NERVES are again at the center of any dog genetics without the solid nerve core all the drives are worthless in my opinion.

Marlene

Marlene

What is your definition of hard?  No jokes!

Don, I think the problem here has to be just who to believe when somebody asks a question. All I know is that Vikram only a few months ago bought a puppy and was asking very basic questions here on the board. Now he suddenly appears to be an expert!!

Personally I wouldn't want anybody believing what he has to say. I know people can learn from reading but nothing will replace the years spent 'hands on' working these dogs.

Let the knowledgeable step forward and help Mikeee, or has the bickering driven them all underground.