Universal Sieger - Page 2

Stupid question from a stupid AKC person - what's the big deal about "declaring" when it seems to me that almost anyone can do that even if they own a dog that is never going to attain the title.  What does it mean in the real world? If breeders are gullible enough to use that dog or buy puppies out of him or her based on the owner's "declaring" the dog is going to compete for the U.S. title, then they are the dummies. Actually I'm surprised that more owners don't "declare" their dog just to sell puppies or get stud fees.  Surely I am missing something?

Well Nia  I don't know if within 12 month prior to the SS would help the Universal program  what about dogs imported and do not fall into the 12 month time. The Universal Sieger program is still very low on participants   and this would not allow a steady growth. Further more to declare the participant does not have to fill out a declaration form   they can just say they going for it . The first step IMO should be that they have to declare in writing prior to the SS.  I introduced the Universal Sieger in my region when I was the Regional Breed warden all participant must declare prior to the first event . paperwork is checked and  are anounced at the first event which is usually the show. 

The reason I think your post is premature and you strongly pointed to the VA dogs is that these dogs /owners/handlers still have time to make their requirements .Perhaps I misread your post but I thought it was kinda harsh ,premature and pointing fingers. ( I appoligize if I misread )

 To switch the 2 events and declare at the nationals it is also is a benefitt to the handler/trainer the dog had a full season of training has it's 270 and regional participation already in it's book and the Siegershow will be the last event to crown the Universal Sieger of that year . I really like that idea alot . Dogs have to be in possession for at least 6 months prior to the national event anyway so all would be solved  by just switching the events :)   I would strongly support that change !

Pia

Well Nia  tell you the truth what rubbed me a bit the wrong way is the words  you choosed to post this topic . If you are concerned of the low participation of declared dogs in both events perhaps this should have brought to everyones attention in a different  manner  . Not by calling members phoney marketing plot etc  . We have enough of the negativity between members  due to show vs work and posts such as yours just fires up the bashing of one side or the other more !!! 

Ok perhaps I will write a alternate proposal :))

I also think that the point system should be changed a bit  more on the international point system for the Universal Sieger title .

I did not even notice who was trialing who was not  . Nice to hear Juneau is persuing the title !!

Pia

PS and for those thinking I am fighting with NIa I am not  she knows me well enough to know I am  voicing my opinion and has nothing to do with likes or dislikes between us :))

Ravi's dog would more then deserve the title though.  

Ravi's dog JUNEAU just went out to get his SchH3.
Still has to do a regional & score 270.

ULE just had a litter in July, mated to DUX!!!
She has her SchH3, was in the running last year in Canada for Universal Sieger.

In Canada the trial & show is the same weekend, trial on Saturday & show on Sunday!!

Karen will be getting her ready for a USA Regional.

Now that would be something have a litter, then go out and become the USA Universal Sieger
 

Pia wrote:

Well Nia  tell you the truth what rubbed me a bit the wrong way is the words  you choosed to post this topic . If you are concerned of the low participation of declared dogs in both events perhaps this should have brought to everyones attention in a different  manner  . Not by calling members phoney marketing plot etc  . We have enough of the negativity between members  due to show vs work and posts such as yours just fires up the bashing of one side or the other more !!! 

The topic is vanilla-neutral: "Universal Sieger."  Period.  Nothing controversial or antagonistic about it.   Further, it has nothing to do with "working" vs. "show" as some of the dogs that declared are working line!      My query was regarding all of them, with the exception of Juneau.   Notice, I did not ask whether anyone had seen any of the show line dogs trial. In fact, it would have been stupid, as the ONLY declared dog, AFAIK, who has trialed since the SS is a show line dog--Juneau.

At  this point, no, I am not concerned about the low participation.  That happens every year.  What I am concerned about  is the disingenuousness of declaring, apparently for the sake of advertising and marketing, and nothing more.  As it stands now, it appears that the run for Universal Sieger is the same one-horse race it usually is.  I wish it were more.  As you know ,I lament the lack of more eligible Univ candidates each and every year.   But, phoney declarations don't increase the numbers of candidates--it just helps puppy sales.

I am sorry, Pia, but , YES, declarations are phoney, when the declarants just flatly decalre because they can do that and never do another damn thing in the process.  Would you consider me a potential National Championship winner, just because I sit here now and declare one or both  of my dogs for the Nationals?   Mind you, I do have a Sch 3 gsd , a strong, powerful and very impressive male that I raised and titled.   He has a constrained leg muscle and is "retired."    He has over-the-top drives and would never on his best day, with ANYBODY, get out of the 80s in obedience, although he is capable of Vs in tracking and protection...if, you can control that drive.  But, we have time to enter a regional and trial for a 270 score somewhere.     My other gsd is a six-month old, obnoxious little bitch.  She is not likely to fulfil the requirements to trial for a B, but we could declare anyway.     IF that were all that were required.

Tina:  You bet!!   I cannot wait to see Ravi and Juneau at the Nationals!!

I'm with Pia. It's painfully obvious which dog you wanted to attack here. If that was not your intention, then you should know that's definitely how it came off.

Enlighten me, please:

 WHAT dog am I attacking???  NONE!!   Period.    Get a clue:  the issue isn't the dogs--they did not make any declarations, pay for any ads, sell and stud services or puppies.  The people who own them, however, declared for Universal Sieger.  There are TWELVE dogs that  were declared for Universal Sieger and only one, STILL, who has so much as trialed at all since the show.    Let's remember, too, that  two were not even shown at the SS ,  and one was pulled.  Another  was rated INSUFFICIENT.   That was because  prior to the show, nothing was requiired other than  flat, insubstantial declarations.   THAT is the issue, not "the dog."

Please DO NOT TRY TO PUT WORDS IN MY MOUTH!!       Don't try to turn this into a work vs show issue,  as you obviously are attempting to do.  I point out, again, that among those making the phoney declarations are people attached to the working line dogs who were also flatly declared. 

I cannot make it any plainer.  Those who choose to make it a work vs show issue, or about a specific dog ,are not only stretching, but doing so  because of their own defensiveness  and will do so no matter what.   Not my problem. 

Don't read between the line--I didn't write anything  there.  I wrote the actual lines.