Tracking - Page 2

Or it sounds like he is bored, and you have not defined what tracking is to him.  A dog has to have a reason to track, and if you teach it right the reason is positive, if you use force the reason is to avoid being corrected.

As Don Corleone asks, how much are you feeding him at home?  What are his drives, are they high, does her prefer food over toy or toy over food?  You can use toys on the track very successfuly.

I honestly think that 28 months is a bit early to start force tracking unless you really have laid a solid foundation and he is just blowing you off.  Only you can answer that question though, again a solid foundation in my opinion is very consistent tracking 3-4 times a week at a minimum.

If the dog knows articles, make article tracks, lay a 200 pace track with maybe only one turn, and put 20 articles out there, use great rewards for correct article indication, GIVE him a reason to want to move forward and find that article.  IF you have been doing boring tracks with three articles or only two and very little food, or his belly is full, where is his motivation to go forward?

WIld dogs track to find their dinner, they are highly motivated to find what they are looking for.  I highly suggest You figure out what motivates your dog, be it food, or toy and get him motivated before you start to use force.  ONce you go to force that is your LAST opportunity and if that doesn't work, you are screwed.

So I would exhaust every avenue of motivation BEFORE using force, you really can totally turn a dog off of tracking, and if the force eventually works are you ready to out your companion through all that is required to make a track knowing that you really could have done more on your part and taken some time to be sure the dog understands and has motivation to track?

hey just want to say Don,Two Moon,KariM i really liked ur answeres and enjoyed. thanks.have a nice one.

He knows how to track, and his drives are very high for food and expecially his ball. To me he is just plain not intressted. He knows how to track and can track a whole schH1 track when he feels like it. To me it is like he tells me F*** you i dont feel like it today. I used food on the track to teach him. He does do articles too.

I just wanted to know more about what your opinions are on force tracking, as I have never done it before and it is someone else who brought it up.

Thanks for everything,

Jen

Jen;

You mentioned  that you feel the dog is "blowing you off", so to speak.  Is it only in tracking that you have this, or what is your relationship with the dog during the other two phases?  

Barb

Jen,

Confine him for an hour or so before tracking,  make tracking a coming out event.   Make it more fun and interesting than what he's been doing previously.    Motivation.   Allow him peace and quiet afterward's and a special treat not confined.

Tracking is better than sitting in a crate or kennel all day.  And if thats what it take's for him to get attention and some activity he will go for it with a better attitude.

Early morning is best.   New place's , different place's make's it more interesting. 

I just feel that if you force behavior that's the only way the dog will respond, setting bad behavior in other area's as well.

Make it something the dog want's to do.

Brent.

Jen,

Of course your dog KNOWs how to track, they all do.  But was is the motivation for your dog to do so?

I have trained a lot with Ivan, and one thing that he continuosly mentions is this:  when you have a job to do, are you going to do it to your very best when you aren't getting paid squat to do it?  If you are asking for very dedicated and deliberate work pay big!

One thing that I have been guilty of is taking the food off of the track, or leaving too many spaces between footsteps, I know many people who NEVER take the food off of the track until the day of the trial.  Jim Lempner does this and he has scored V in MANY National events and has also competed on the FCI World team with his dog Mike.

Just a few suggestions to try since your guy is quiet young still, and again once you go to forced tracking, there is no going back if that fails.

Jen

That is a contradiction to be "very high for food"  and not interested in the track.   Either there is a motivation  for food or there isn't.  If the dog has a "very high" drive for food, then something had to have happened for him to go into avoidance when tracking came up.  There is no way that a very high food drive dog will go into avoidance if there is food on the track unless some type of conflict is involved.  Trust me.  Are you not using bait on the track?  To me I feel like I am doing a 300 piece puzzle with only 150 of the pieces.  I feel like you are telling half the story.  I have seen some pretty independent mother f-ing dogs that have food drive and will track because they have the motivation.  Something doesn't sound right.  Have we already tried to force track?

I have never tried to force track because I don`t know how to. The guy I train with told me he force tracks all the dogs eh competes with and suggested it to me, since one day the dog tracks great and the next day he has no interest.

The dog loves food, but when he is on the track he will pick up what he can but go extrememly fast, overshoot corners at times, and is in general not into trakcing, he prefers OB and Protection, this is where he excels. I compare it to kids, some love to read and study while others like sports and being active. (This is my dog) always needs to be moving etc..

One way to slow down fast tracking is to put serpentines and ALOT of them, don't do too many straight legs. 

As I mentioned before one variance of "forced tracking" is feeding the dog ONLY on the track.  I would try that for a month or two before you go to FORCE.  Again some people do this and do fine, but a dog knows how to track already so if you can just figure out what makes your dog want to track you'll feel better in the end. 

I don't know if you have ever watched some of the FORCE forced tracking but it is very ugly, very inhumane and the dog crawls down the track afraid.  You can almost tell everytime a dog that has been force tracked, there is not enthusiasm for the track, and most dogs show the pressure as they are tracking, not a very good sign.

It seems that perhaps you are wanting to get somewhere faster rather than taking the time to do this correctly. 

Jim Lempner put on a seminar with our club back in October, and he uses food in EVERY foot step for 7-8 months, YES I said 7-8 MONTHS.  If you want a reliable tracking dog, you must put in the effort and time it takes to create the behavior that we look for in Schutzhund.

Try feeding only on the track, and I would not use a "jackpot" if you dog is already fast. you can use kibble on the track and one thing that Jim also teaches is to lay the track with food in every footstep, take the dogs to the starting point and let the dog go.  The only place there is food is in the track, if you have tought scent pads well enough, and the dog understands what you are asking of him, he will be very deliberate and track.

When I was first teaching Jager to track he was pulling me every where very fast etc.  When Jim had me lay the track with food, and told me I was going to let him go, drop the line and let him go, I was like my dog is just going to run around and act like an idiot.  He told me no, he will track, and guess what?  He tracked EVERY footstep to the end, and then double backed on the track.

Find the motivation for your dog and take your time.  You'll even learn something along the way. Kari

Thanks Kari, Very Helpful. I appreciate it!