Sport Title v.s. Breed Worthyness title. in Sch. - Page 2

I think this is an important topic.  One thing is for sure, the numbers of GSDs seen in law enforcement and the military are dwindling.  Why is this?  I think it's because it has become much easier to find  Malis and Dutchies capable of doing the work than GSDs and this makes me very sad, and it wasn't always like this.   This is what happens when the working ability becomes a mere after thought and a lower priority than show quality.  So, a system such as the one suggested by Bob is not such a far out idea and would go far  in restoring the breed to it's old glory (what the founder wanted it to be).    

Bob, Let me apologize for getting offtrack of your original post. I think that if we reinstated Sch as it was in the 60's we would force temperament and conformation to improve. Reinstate the six foot wall. You can always have a ladder on the other side so the dog does'nt have to jump stright down. But the explosiveness that is required to do the wall in those days has been lost with the dogs that are anotomically incorrect. Also, put back in the numerical rating of 6 to 10 for evaluation in the protection routine. This way a person can differentiate the differences in the TSP. Bting back the bamboo sticks hits as opposed to padded and increase the volume of the gunshot to put stress on the dog's nerves. These are some minor things that were eliminated and I think would improve assessment for breeding stock.

Although I agree with Melanie on placing a spotlight on the TSB, Schutzhund will continue to delineate from a breedworthy test into a competitive sport unless you take away the scores.  I know this sounds funny, but if it was a simple pass/fail with a V, SG G etc and a Tsb Rating that would omit alot of the bullshit.

What's up with all the newbies flipping their lids? I'm with Gustave 110%. If the dog can do the work, that  in itself is beautiful. If he can do it over and over for years and not breakdown, that is the dog I want to breed to. Whether we think it is ugly or unstylish, a dog that can work is correct over a dog that has the "look". Pretty doesn't get the job done. Dogs should be rated on ability not show scores...period! I think some need to take a look back at Siegers from 1970 and before. This is a working breed/herding breed, if it can't do it's job, how can it be correct, looks or no?

Am I the only one that thinks a showline shepherd is ugly?    To me they look like the equivalant of a 90 year old human.  Their backs are hunched, they look like the wind could blow them over and every single one has the same color of hair.

LOL I might agree Don, but there are some I have seen who are not so bad and can actually work. I'd just like to know what drives the average show person? You can't convince me the majority of them give 2 shits if their dogs represent the breed but just look cookie cutter perfect and as orange as possible. When you think about it, would you desire to buy a Dalmation but prefer one with no spots?  Labs that don't hunt? Why? Find a breed better suited to what you want not change one to suit your own needs driven by looks.  I think looks are driving way too many people instead of what the dogs where intended for. Does it stem from selfishness, (I want a dog that looks like that but easy to handle)? Or too lazy to research the breed and see if it will actually jive with your lifestyle?

I don't know.  I love the looks of the Doberman, but it is much harder to find a good working prospect compared to the GSD. 

You folks generalize way too much. While the work and structure of many SL dogs (often those VA or spitzen V specimens) does suck, the majority of SL dogs are not genetic cripples.  Unfortunately, the owners of the top-winning dogs are unmotivated to change and take little pride in fine-tuning their work.

OK--let's say that I have a couple of V-rated, titled SL males--going back to Marko and with many HGH's behind. All true--not hypothetical scenarios. Their names are not important to this discussion. However, people on the other side of the continent may recognize their progeny by the working posture/carriage/presence and genetically good grips of the offspring.

Here are some of their attributes and breeding advisories:

Louise

I agree that judging is a major factor, but you are looking at it in a different light.  Most SV judges that come here are on holiday.  They get everything paid for and are judging a CLUB trial.  Yes, some may be more relaxed letting a shitter float through. 

To me, and I'm only looking at the working dogs, the judges have stopped looking at the GSD as a working dog and more of a sport dog.  Breeders know this and breed for it.  Competitors know this and buy and train for it. 

Louise your a SL person not a "show" person. You do more and expect more from your dogs than to prance around in circles looking pretty. It would be nice if everyone would expect as much, if not more than bare minimum, no matter what lines or breed for that matter. Scraping by has become the new norm and that is sad.