Bummer. K-9 Super Fuel/ - Page 2

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I have been using the K9 ShowStopper on my dogs for a while now....it also has the Dimethylprimidinol sulfate in it. Thanks RichoGSD I didnt even realize that was in these supplements. I really like how my two females look on ShowStopper too. It does concern me that this toxin is in this supplement.  I had just run out of ShowStopper and was going to order some more tonight when I read this article you posted....now I am not sure if I should feed this anymore.

jyl thanks for posting. Saves me a trip to read the ingredients list with a magnifying glass!  

Hodie you are a very knowlegable person but you don't have much for a bedside manner. Very hard for anyone to listen to a person that continueally berates people because they do not think the same as them. Some people on this board (obviously) might appreciate this info, most people are not children and they can figure out what to do with the information given. YR and RichoGSD meant well, it is OK to post your opinion on the matter but name calling and telling people they have "no clue" is rude and arrogant.

 Trailrider,

The reason I have such a poor "bedside manner" as you so put it is because Yellow Rose writes crap about that which she knows absolutely nothing about. Unfortunately, she does it all the time. She has written before about this and other subjects and if it were simply her wish to not feed something, that would be one thing. But instead, she has to write completely incorrect and inflammatory information about subjects she knows nothing about. The children here have a better education and know how to look at issues rationally and not simply read crap someone posts on the internet that is ripe with falsehoods taken from old sources written by people who also knew nothing about what they wrote about, or, purposely mislead people.

The reason for the label not calling it one thing vs another is not really a reason to go nuts. It can be and is called lots of things. Was K-9 Fuel trying to hoodwink someone? I cannot answer that. By the way, Go Dog K9 supplements and many others also have this in it. It is a common vitamin source in many foods and supplements. In my opinion, using any of these silly supplements is just that, silly. But it is your money and have at it if you feel it does your dog some good. I have many, many GSDs here, and over the last 10 plus years have seen hundreds of GSDs in my rescue program. None were given routine supplements unless they had a medical reason to need something extra than what their normal and adequate diet gave them. They all are healthy, bright eyed, have shiny coats and lots of energy to do training and road work without incident.

The point is again,,,,feed what you like to yourself or your dog. But people, geez, get some perspective on things. If you do not have the most basic understanding of toxicology, of metabolism, of how a particular substance, in this case a Vitamin K substitute, if you do not know chemical nomenclature, etc. etc. etc., then ask about it rather than come here and post as Yellow Rose recently did about something being a poison to scare one away from using something she knows nothing about.

I would suggest people read the post above again. Then YOU look for something about the topic that is NOT on some web site trying to sell you their supplements, their foods etc. Would I use K-9 Fuel? NO, because I don't think overall it provides any benefit at all to any of my dogs. Do I think it is full of toxic material, such as Dimethylprimidinol sulfate. Again no. This is a minute amount of this form of vitamin K. Pure and simple. My dogs do not need any supplement. There is also NO established daily need for vitamin K, although we all should know it is absolutely critical for life.

And if people make outlandish and ignorant statements, then my comments are the least they have to worry about. If one is going to talk about something like this, one better know a little more than what they read on some stupid internet site that is of questionable value in the first place. 

Why do I bother to write on posts like this? I do so in the hope that at least one person who comes here gets a balanced view rather than simply hearing all the incorrect information that is so often posted here, including by YR. A colonic for the brain might be good in this case. If you find what I write to be of no use, don't read them. But if you write something that is blatantly stupid, I might answer it and no, I don't worry about a bedside manner. I simply try to set the facts out.

Hodie I feel most people use a supplement for their animals because they feel it fills in a  gap in the event whatever they are feeding is not balanced. Much the same way people do by taking a multiple vitamin/mineral. It is an insurance policy to them and at the very least if it makes them feel better, then that is not a bad thing.

I think sometimes common sense  has to come into play when looking at the info that YR posted as well as RichoGSD. This info came from somewhere, be it the internet or books, it is just someones opinion. All the research in the world eventually just comes down to what someones "opinion" is of their research. It is up to the reader to take it, digest it, and form their own opinion on it. I personally feel anything that is synthetic or processed, including foods like Hamburger Helper, are not good for you in the long run. I much prefer to take a natural route.

My point to you on your bedside manner is simply I have a hard time listening or believing in a person who posts so boldly as you do at times with a "my way or the highway" attitude. May I ask where it is you find your info on additives such as menodine? For alot of us life is a day to day struggle and the easiest way to find  info is Google.

 Trailrider,

Your ax to grind with me is not useful. I could care less what you or people feed or what supplements you use. Use what you like. That is not the point of this and you know it. I really don't care if you read or digest my posts if you do not find them helpful. Many others do and I receive many private requests for information which I try hard to give, but I don't just give my personal opinion, I try to direct people to facts, both pro and con for a given topic.

My POINT is this. If one is going to post, then at least have the sense to post valid information. That means one cannot simply be lazy and post a lot of BS that is simply incorrect. I won't get into a pissing match here about who does or does not have a "day to day struggle" as you put it as I am certain I do far more than most in running a business seven days a week 18 hours a day, training dogs, helping children, reading, taking courses etc. etc. etc. There is no substitute for a quality education and an education should continue throughout ones' life. That can be done in a variety of ways.

Americans are far too lazy and unfortunately, all too many have not the most rudimentary skills to make rational decisions about a host of critical topics. But sure, one can look at Wikipedia (a joke) or google, not having any idea how to separate fact from fiction, personal opinions from science etc. and write posts on a site like this that propagate ignorance. Opinion is just that. If one wants to say, "I don't want to feed this or that because I don't want a vitamin supplement in my food" or whatever, that is fine. To write other crap about it being poison and intimate it is toxic is irresponsible and inflammatory.

In a way, yes, all information has a bias, if that is what you mean. But at least have the sense and the moxy to know what bias the author has and on what it is based. Writing the FDA says something is "not fit for humans" when discussing K3 is incorrect and pure crap. When someone writes something is "poison" and has nothing to back that kind of statement up, it serves no one, not even those who would not want to use that substance.

As for natural vs synthetic, again, perhaps you might wish to learn about chemistry to learn that many things are created by man that are EXACTLY what they are in nature. Thankfully, we can create some of the important substances that are found in nature in small quantities or that are difficult or expensive to harvest. If we could not, we would be in a world of hurt. I won't try to demonstrate to you how much you ingest that you think is "natural" that, in fact, is synthetic and is exactly the same as that found in nature.

Whether you listen or believe me is up to you. My attitude is NOT "my way or the highway". Rather, my attitude IS that if one is going to write something that is inflammatory or worse yet, irresponsible, one better have the facts straight. More often than not, when it comes to this topic, some people are out in left field. To be so far out does no one any good. You appear purposely to miss the point. So be it. I have work to do.

Deleted by me

Actually...  I can't believe I even posted something that caused issues.  I should have just generalized my beef with labeling,  I had, with my few previous posts - tried to keep it light.  If I could delete this thread and start all over, I would.  There is so much controversy in human and dog additives, preservatives and the like that it is mind boggling.  I feel that the people that have replied to this post all have valid points (especially me...lol). 

I think the PDB has useful information but feel that it unfortunately is also a vehicle of personal vendettas.  Thank you all for your input, but I think this is where I step aside and go away.

Richo,

It has nothing to do with personal vendettas. I do not know the people posting here, including you. It does have something to do with suggesting that one do one's homework. And no, google or wikipedia are not considered valid sources. If one wants to learn about a supplement, as an example, there are many, many valid sources to look at. But that takes some work and most people are satisfied with simply being lazy and quoting off some internet site that quoted off another internet site and so on and so on. The bottom line is someone made a statement long ago and everyone took it and ran with it without challenging whether it was valid or not.

As for MSG, there are many foods that have it, and many that do not. One cannot make a reasonable decision about that or any other substance if one does not have a solid background in a variety of fields. It is no wonder that America has slipped so far in the status of educated nations. We are now below 20th in rank and slipping. For all the other problems this country faces, I submit that a huge part of our problem is that we have failed to properly educate our citizens. That, more than anything else will lead us astray as we are unable to make rational decisions about our future, be it in how to provide energy, or the best and appropriate medical care for our citizens.

http://www.itchmo.com/howl911-threatened-with-lawsuit-from-blue-buffalo-329/all-comments/

This is a link I just found stating that menadione was banned in the UK..

This is not the 40 page study I had...I have emailed Nancy on our base who had it in her favorites.

I will find the original study that plainly discussed all aspects of using Menadione Vit K activity in dog foods.