Neurological symptoms again... - Page 2

Thanks for all the replies. Yes, all the dogs are vaccinated for rabies every year, I think the male was actually overdue by a couple of months (with all his other issues we were not in a hurry to give him vaccines at that point) but I do not think this would be very important. The symptoms were not typical of rabies. I will look into the rheumatoid test... I should point out that the symptoms of these two dogs, though both neurological, were very different. My older dog had fits and convulsions like epilepsy and was not really conscious. But the young female was more like Sparrow described, very sudden onset, paralysis but she still recognized people and responded - and no convulsions, yes folding the back feet under. Sparow your case was very sad, I remember reading about it at the time, I am so sorry. My dogs have not had ivermectin. So far so good with the female, at the moment you would not think anything had happened, shes as bouncy as ever, eating well and her eyes are fine....but I am worried it could happen again. Hodie, I am still waiting for the blood results, sorry will mail asap. fda I will pm you for the link you mention.

Oso,

Where in Ecuador are you? Are there any type of ticks where you live? Are there mosquitos there? Do your dogs have contact with any other dogs or animals, wild or domestic?

When you get the full blood work report, do send it to me. We will go from there. I still believe this is most likely an infectious process of some sort. The DEX the dog was administered would have reduced inflammation, if present. As an aside, with what and how often are your kennels disinfected?

Hodie, I have got the blood results, but really there is not muh information as it seems very few tests were done (just to eliminate distemper I think). On June 14th Leucoytes x mm3 were 14.400, - leucocyte formula is Polymorphic Neutrophyls 83%, Lymphocytes 17%. On June 16 these same figures were 11.800, 75% and 25%. This is all the info we have apart from gluscose which was normal. We are in Cuenca at an altitude of 2.750m so a temperate, not tropical climate. We do occasionally find the odd tick on our dogs, not mosquitos. There are one or two dogs around that belong to some staff, according to the owners they are vaccinated. We do have a rescue centre for wild animals but these live in enclosures and do not have any direct contact with the dogs. My own dogs are fairly far away from the wild animals and never have any contact, but the young female and another black male are in a temporary kennel which is quite near to the cages of some kinkajous. It is possible that there are rats in this area. My own kennels have cement floors that are covered with wood shavings, we remove just the soiled shavings once or twice daily and take all the shavings out, wash with disinfectant and replace with new shavings about once a week, depending how much time the dogs have been inside. (If we have a litter of puppies the cleaning is much more frequent). We usually use ordinary disinfectant, but sometimes wash with one that vets use that is supposed to kill viruses etc. called creso in Spanish and smells dreadful... or occasionally bleach. BUT where this female lives the kennel (which was not originally designed as such) has a soil floor covered with woodshavings, it is always dry as it has a roof, it has always been kept clean, but not disinfected.

 Oso,

A quick review of possible parasites and bacterial and viral infections in canines in your part of the world leads to a large number of possibilities. You have them all: ticks, flies that transmit leishmaniasis, Mosquitos that transmit a variety of diseases, heartworm,  rats and other critters that can transmit leptospirosis, rabies, and a variety of other bacterial and viral diseases that can infect canines. The vet and medical literature repeatedly references the poor state of canine immunizations in Ecuador, but it is unclear if they are specifically referring to rabies.

Given the limited information your vet has collected, and given what I remember of your males' issues, there may or may not be a common factor here. However, I am curious. Did either dog ever do a lot of sneezing? Are the dogs out at night or is there the potential for mosquitoes and flies to come into their kennel areas? What is the fur on their ears like? 

There are nasal mites that can cause the signs you mention in your female, including a variety or CNS signs. But there are other possibilities as well. One could rule out nasal mites, and one could look for tick diseases in the US, but I don't know if your vets can do this there.

There are so many potential diseases and parasites there that I would strongly recommend routine disinfection of all your solid surfaces, and I would even disinfect the dirt the female is on. This might mean you have to move a dog into some temporary holding area but a 1 part household bleach (5-6% bleach) to 10 parts water would provide a general disinfectant.  If I lived there, you can bet I would be using some sort of control for potential vectors (flies, ticks, fleas etc.). But given the lack of information other than what you observed, anything I come up with is just a guess. In temperate and tropical zones in countries like where you are, the possibilities are many.

 

 

Thank you Hodie - obviously a lot of possibilities...leptospirosis and rabies supposedly covered by vaccines. I am pretty sure that leishmaniasis and most mosquito borne diseases are more prevalent on the coast and in the Amazon region (tropical) and are not known up here in the mountains. However the female was living with her owners on the coast before comng here 3-4 months ago, and also participated in a show on the coast in May. I do not know if something could take so long to incubate? We do get occasional ticks (and actually in the Merck manual a tick borne illness seemed to come closer than anything to what we saw in the female) - I don¿t know how the blood results would be affected in this case? We do use frontline, but its more effetive for fleas than ticks..... I have seen and heard of many dogs here affected by flies that bite their ears, but none of my dogs have ever had this problem. The dogs are not out at night but it is possible flies could get into the kennels. My male always slept in the house. No, I don't think they sneezed, the male coughed and the female had a kind of wheezy breathing and a lot of eye secretion (male never had this). I know there are many of diseases form Ecuador, but most are from the tropical regions, in fact several top breeders who live on the coast keep their best dogs in kennels up in the mountains. Same with people, doctors always recommend yellow fever vaccination and malaria protection for Ecuador, but these are only necessary in the lowland regions, not where we live. I should also point out that I have kept dogs here for 17 years, and have been breeding for 6 years and these are the only two cases of neurological problems I have had. My dogs and puppies have been very healthy on the whole, apart from these cases and a female who became unwell and developed a hugely enlarged spleen which was also a mystery illness but from which she recovered totally, without the spleen being removed (this illness followed a show in the coast incidentally) So far the young female still seems fine, theoretically she is going back to her owners next week, so I have fingers crossed there will be no repercussions.

 Oso, 

I think it is probably true that the coastal regions are worse for certain parasites and diseases, but there appear to be at least a few that can be found in the mountainous areas. As well, remember, for example, with lepto, that the vaccine will include three or so strains and lepto has many strains. We see this happen here in the states where a dog has been vaccinated and still develops a problem. Of course, that can also happen if something is not right about the vaccine.

Tick borne illnesses are very nasty and yes, they can take a long time to manifest. With your male, another possibility was some sort of encephalitis, and your female could have had a mild case of a tick paralysis. But, as I said, I also noted that there is a nose mite than has been found to cause, watery eyes, with or without nasal obvious involvement, and sometimes can cause CNS problems.

So at this point, who knows. I still think the female probably had an infection of some sort. Hopefully, it will resolve on its own. Keep us posted and best of luck.

Thank you so much, I will mention these possibilities to the vet who I will see later this afternoon. I will let you know if anything else happens....