...price of a working dog, got me thinking - Page 2

Bob McGown- FYI- I produce MAYBE one working litter a year... occasionally two, but sometimes a year or two producing zero. Most of the pups I sell these days were bred by someone else who I know and trust.

SS

"For those that like to do schutzhund because they like to spend time w/ other folks and love there dogs."

It could be possible that along with the first sentence those people are also serious about titling ther dogs

Thats a funny comment how about putting it this way.

Green young dogs are fine for those people who have nothing but there own ego,s to stroke and the lack of talent to raise a pup.

 I have nothing but admiration for the few people who have a REAL H,O.T.B dog or the ones raising pups to dogs and trialing since they had the baby teeth, those are the one,s that the organizations should be singing the praises to, What they need to do is change how dogs are titled if your trialing for sport make it a sport title say a Sp.T 1.2.3. and make the Sch 1.2.3. a real breed test (what it was designed to be) and only breed the Sch 1.2.3.

If you do it for the love of doing it, you shouldn't feel out anything. The dog still kept you busy and taught you something along the way. Even if that may be bad experiences, it's still experience. Learn from it and move on. Maybe I can be cavalier about it because titles mean jack sh!# to me. I like spending time with my dogs and a sport gives me that time and direction. I spent $1000 on a good pup. If he doesn't title the way I see it, $1000 isn't much for a good pet. I can't blame the dog for any gas money or club fees I paid into. I never consulted him on those transactions.

 If you want top of the line world champions, don't buy a pup and don't be a cheap ass. I see they go for around $20,000 and up.

Shelly:

 I,m not the one saying I have a couple pups left and would give them to good handlers...

bob,

a lot of the folks a the top of the schutzhund world have raised many pups and have proven thier training ability time and time again. 

the only time ego isnt involved is when you go out fail tracking, barely pass OB and maybe get an 82 in proection.  if you do this smile, and say well i had fun anyway.  then ego is not involved.  if you are dissapointed in the scores then id say ego is involved.

personally i enjoy the competition, im not a big fan of a large trianing club, or holding the hand of beginners, nor will i gamble 12-18 mo's on a pup. i purchased my last dog at 2yrs old and had just as much fun and worked just as hard as someone who started w/ an 8wk old puppy. IMO starting w/ and puppy and taking it to a sch3 is an accomplishment but a bit overated as a measureing stick of training ability.

World of difference between training an 8 week old pup and starting with a green dog. World of difference.

Half the trainers I know don't do puppies because they ruin them, but they don't admit that they blame the dog.

Both my Pups were bought at eight Weeks Old, So i am the one to bring out the best or worse in them, Not worse i hope

So any Schutzhund titles we get we do together, If they do not make it, then i and the Dogs will have given it our best Shot, But i think both will go on and do fine in the sport

I could have bought a older Pup or Dog, but wheres the fun or honour in letting someone else tiltle your Dog for you,

To me that would mean nothing, I would acchieve nothing from it

Of course others would not know that i had not tilted the Dog myself, But i would, and that is what matters to me

Steve

IMO starting w/ and puppy and taking it to a sch3 is an accomplishment but a bit overated as a measureing stick of training ability.

I think I could agree with that, when comparing to a 8-18 month dog, there may not be much difference.  Working with a dog already titled level 1 by someone else's hand isn't necessarily easier either, can be more difficult given the circumstance.  There is, in my opinion, an definite advantage in a young adult of about 8-12 months, with little training that may prove counterproductive to your methods or camoflauge true inherant potential.

Someone who buys a young, green dog still has a ton of work to do as far as training is concerned.  The advantage is you have a better idea of the dogs talent and of course, health clearances.  These are the reasons many top people in the sport want  a green dog, not because of the training it may or may not have.  In fact many times the less training the less bad habits to fix.

As far as motives and ego, I think you are way off base, but as long as the dog is well treated what difference does it make and who are you to question others  motives? 

I agree with 4pack. I'm willing to pay for a nice pup, but if we never achieve a title, at least it will have been fun trying. And I'll still have a great dog.

Something I didn't consider is that some breeders might not want to sell me a dog because of this attitude. Could explain why half of my emails go unanswered.