Showdog Schutzhund - Page 2

"If I can stand on the side lines of a show ring and cheer loudly for the sable working line and be pissed when that dog doesn't get the higher rating it deserves, why can't others stand on the side of a training or trial field and support the show line person who tries?" (DeesWolf)

 I agree 100%. 

If we are more inclusive and tolerant of each other,  we would all  benefit greatly, to say nothing of what it would do for the breed in general.   

Dee,

There are working folks who stand on the sidelines to cheer on their show friends--I am one of them. I just spent the whole weekend in Canada to support a club member with two show line dogs as she trialed both (and got the titles!).     I missed the first dog's OB, because I was held up at the border in one of their "random" checks--spent an hour standing in line with the other "randoms" and being interviewed by immigration.  Sheesh.  The only available room in an acceptable hotel was 20 miles away on unlit roads (I have nightblindness and do not drive at night in rural areas), and even then a  Super 8 that costs more than a $100 AND the Canadian dollar is now worth more than ours!    I "might" even go to the Sieger Show to cheer her on as she shows her HOT and HOTB dogs.  So, yeah, I support my show friends, ESPECIALLY the ones that get out there and trial. 

Kudos to you, Dee!! 

 

Wish I’d read this topic earlier. Agree with its general thrust completely. Under King Shepherd topic I said something similar to Domenic: how a dog’s own unique particular character, abilities, temperament etc, seems to me to play a far more important part than whether it happens to be derived from show or working bloodlines. Schutzhund qualification is meant to serve as an important evaluation tool but, where young animals are set on a predetermined, regimented course of training by well-paid highly expert trainers according to a very tight timeline, and for sole purpose of gaining requisite qualification per se (and hence future profit for its owner?) does it not lose much of its worth or gloss? Become to some extent self-defeating? It’s inexcusable I know, but conditioned over the years in observing /admiring structure/movement I often find myself getting irritated with that of workingline dogs, with little compensation I’ve discovered thus far. We all appreciate beauty, so why shouldn’t a dog look good (as distinct from cosmetically pretty), or the part as they say, as well a being able to work?

Wish I’d read this topic earlier. Agree with its general thrust completely. Under King Shepherd topic I said something similar to Domenic: how a dog’s own unique particular character, abilities, temperament etc, seems to me to play a far more important part than whether it happens to be derived from show or working bloodlines. Schutzhund qualification is meant to serve as an important evaluation tool but, where young animals are set on a predetermined, regimented course of training by well-paid highly expert trainers according to a very tight timeline, and for sole purpose of gaining requisite qualification per se (and hence future profit for its owner?) does it not lose much of its worth or gloss? Become to some extent self-defeating? It’s inexcusable I know, but conditioned over the years in observing /admiring structure/movement I often find myself getting irritated with that of workingline dogs, with little compensation I’ve discovered thus far. We all appreciate beauty, so why shouldn’t a dog look good (as distinct from cosmetically pretty), or the part as they say, as well a being able to work?

 

 

     Once again, a good thread, and one dealing with mutual support between the two "camps" no less, is reduced to offal by a thesaurus.   There was no slamming or damning...until Speaknow.     I have  a classical education, advanced degrees,  great facility with the English language as a first language and have studied several  other languages, yet I  CANNOT make sense of  half  that   you are "talking" about.   Furthermore, I am absolutely convinced that , at least half the time, what you write doesn't make sense to you, either. 

    If the negativity that  you intended to bring to this thread was the old, tired, time-worn (and fallacious)  "working- lines are ugly" bullshit, honey, just SAY SO in the three words required.  Save us from having to wade through all that verbal offal. 

 

Now, go ahead, open up your thesaurus and that old tome of outdated Victorian  English, and have at it!!   But, don't be disappointed that no one responds:  I, for one, am through wading through the verbal offal . 

 

I

lets all just cut to the chase, put down the dictonary and thesaurus,

show dogs look better and working dogs work better.  while you can find show dogs who (or is it whom, i suck at grammer) work, and working dogs that look good,  you can not find a lot  of them (especially in one line)  that can do both.  too many people have bred in seperate directions for to many years.  many breeders will continue to bred what they have, or what they believe to be the best. 

while I think it a good idea to educate people to the breed (and all of the faces of the breed),  the truth is show people will continue to produce show dogs and working people will continue to bred working dogs.  untill someone has generations of success with their breeding program in both fields,  we will continue to have these debates.

its called a stalemate!

john

What I thought was productive about this thread was instead of trying to debate which is better, we were simply appreciating the differences  and talking about utilizing each others strengths  for the over-all betterment of German Shepherd Dogs.

Apparently that's too much to ask.

I own a Show line bitch which i trained with the help of experienced trainers that guided me to my sch1 and have now decided to stop. I feel that in order for my dog to better improve an abundance of experience is needed. I admit that i do not have the necessary work skills that she needs, but more than that i also admit that at least half of the problems are the breeders themselves after seeing some showline korungs in the past i clearly see my problem not just being my problem. I am ashamed to see the BS that goes on with that pack. THEY  dont want to engage but yet they are bred the BIG VA what a joke. What needs to be done is the top show line breeders got to get a normal job and make better GSD dogs so people like my self can enjoy training a great looking working dog. But that is hard big cash for VA pups from SchH3 proven sire!!!!! V.

Amen, Deeswolf!  I've personally been on the receiving end of a nasty tongue-lashing from a certain breeder who sent a certain stud dog over the pond to get titled.  When the dog put on a mediocre performance at a trial on US soil, I made the mistake of opening my mouth to question the stud's actual abilities relative to the points already in the scorebook. The breeder's exaggerations on the alleged fight drive of this dog were so over the top that I called some dog friends and read the verbal diarhea out loud for a good laugh.

The real pity of the situation is that another one of the breeder's dogs was shown in the same trial by a different handler who came out to our club months before the trial and worked her friggin' butt off, and they did a fantastic job on the SchH1.  In fact, he was the only show dog to earn a Pronounced courage rating.  Problem is, this dog will never get the credit due in the show crowd because he doens't have that "look".  He's clearly B&T instead of black and red, doesn't have the fluffy plush hair, doesn't have the chow-like face. 

If anyone wants a recommendation on a show dog from show lines that can WORK, let me know - I've got kudos for this lady and her dog.  They EARNED that SchH1.  She came out week after week, working her dog.  She trained.  She prepared.  It showed. 

Yvette