What could have made our GSD's independent minded...??? - Page 2

I'm with you 4pack.  I'll sacrifice a little drive for more brains; well, I guess when you think about it I already did when I married my husband.   He'll kick my butt for that one. lol

I would agree it is the hearding instinct that gives the gsd the brains and the drive along with the independence. I have often wondered if by not continuing the hearding if the breed will lose some of this.

Well my boy has no hearders as far back as I can tell, but he does have drive, brains (a little anyway) and a whole lotta independence. I do get irritated he can be so independent, (when I want a snuggler). I lost my shadow dog last August. At the same time, I am glad I don't have to worry about him going nuts if I leave town (non of that going off his feed till mommy comes home crap) His brains piss me off too because it sometimes can be easier to have a dog that just does what you tell him, rather than think about it...weigh his options and then OK mom I'll do it like this and at my own speed. You can't be as lax in your training methods with a thinker. They also aren't as showy on the field compaired to a pure adrenalin drive dog that hits at Mach 3. My dog appears lazy yet he does do what I ask of him.

I figure I have a rock solid dog, he isn't going to bite the wrong guy or take a kids face off. He has a high threshold before he reacts. I'll trade a little flair for a little piece of mind.

In the HGH test, 30 of the 100 points available are just that:  Independence, Obedience, and Diligence each are 10 points. 

So, a tending dog should be just as Susan said, independent and diligent, but at the same time very obedient. 

And I too, call not jumping off of a building to their deaths common sense!

Sounds like you need help with your training, not a different breed or a different dog. I have never had trouble getting any of my dogs to work, and I have never had trouble with their drives.

I fostered a border, english working import lines, on and off for over a year. As much as I loved him, he was really quirky and not a clear thinking dog.  There is such a thing as too much drive. When a dog is becomes literally neurotic and damn near panicked when they can't satisy their prey drive, that's way over the top. 

I've said it before, I'll say it again. HYPERACTIVITY DOES NOT EQUAL DRIVE. I'd much rather my dog sit quietly and intensely and explode with strength when sent out, that have my dog waste tons of energy screaming, spinning, flipping, and frothing at the mouth. I know a LOT of breeders/trainers prefer a dog act like a nutcase...personally, it annoys the crap out of me.

Herding!  Inate ability to be able to work on their own.  But I do have a couple of prey monsters that will jump out the window after the object.  That example is not obedience.  Go look up the Darwin Awards.

Kyle

Yup... definitely not herding instinct... Say my male thinks of sheep/ or goats/ or cats as his prey...  My quiet female thinks of me and my belongings as her  keep... When I'm not around...  She rounds up things that I touch the whole day like my shoes... slippers bags... she puts then in one bunch...

There is something called "horse sense".  If a horse is caught in barbed wire fencing, if it has good horse sense it lies still not to entangle itself more.  If my dog is on a long line and tangles himself up while acting like a freak in front of sheep and I do nothing to untangle him, he lies down and waits.  The same dog, learns how to untangle himself from the long line or how not to ever get tangled up in it.  That is a GSD. 

An animal that does not have survival instincts will not survive.  It may be extreme and great to watch that driven dog go over a cliff but that dog is dead and serves no purpose.  I have a female right now that will go through anything for her tug, but I don't think she would jump over a cliff for it.  As long as I have not taught her to do so.  She trusts me that I won't put her life on the line.  And since she is my partner, I don't want her to go over a cliff for me and die.

I would rather she and I figure out how to get to our goal together than her taking that last final step on her own.  In this way, I think the GSD is more accepting of their partner's authority in setting the direction.  It is canine intelligence but also the ability to trust their owner.  If the owner thinks it is OK they will do it.  Not from and independent impulse.  Certainly the GSD has alot of heart, courage and stamina but it's cognitive decisions are more dependent on their handlers.  At least i think so.

Thats a very nice piece... sunshine...  yes its more about  TRUST and ability of the handler to control his dog...  A dog maybe impulsive and its more of controlling what he LIKES to make him do what you want...  BIDDING that is... or Guiding him to do what a good dog is supposed to do... NOW  does ANYONE have an IDEA how to  make a dog unwittingly DEPENDENT on YOU ( more of... has full trust on you...) Without starving him to death... of course...  probably .... Get a good trainer to TEACH ME  and not the dog since he is already intelligent...