Critcal Mass...... - Page 2

Who's responsibility is it really?

The organizations?

The Judges?

The clubs?

The club TD?

The breeder who supplied said prospect?

See what I am thinking?

if they are failing 2 and 3 times, then i dont see the problem.  the judge is doing their part by not passing them.

now if the judge is "giving" them a title because they have failed multiply times, that would be a problem.

seems to me it has more to do with training.  dogs that dont out at any level can not pass.  happened to me at regionals.

usually only the best (dogs and trainers) rise to the top to excell at regional and national events. 

if you wanted to make the qualifications to compete at regional and national events (such as in other countries), i would not have a problem with that.  but to make it where you can only get a sch3 at a regional event would only deter more people from competing at that level... then you would see a whole lot more of sch2 dogs being bred.

just my 2 cents,

john

How is a BH weeding out the strong dogs? A strong dog cannot do a basic, very easy obedience routine? That comment didn't malke any sense to me.

BH is NOT weeding out strong dogs....comment did not make sense.

And if the issue the original poster is talking about is that dogs are not outing, then that is a training issue. And the rules state the dog must out or be dismissed....

I disagree as well.  In almost all judged events (horse, dog, cat etc..) you must first learn about it in depth before you can really comprehend the differences & skill levels.  Sometimes there might be a year between that 1st & 3rd trial  considering how few & far between trials can be in some areas of the country.  

If I was going to a club with a lot of dogs like what you are describing I would hi tail it out of there and go to a better club.

OK, so how many times can dog not engage, not stay in the blind or not withstand he stick hits before its a weak dogs.  there are very nice dogs everwhere, but whether you want to admit it or not we all know there are dogs w. sch3 titles that can only pass on thier home field w/ their home helper.

Jlethcer, i agree that it is about training but that is my point to some extent. you can train weak dog to go thru the motions in a non stressful, familiar enviroment, and will a helper that isnt putting pressure on the dog (and if you havent seen this you either havent been around long or wont admit it)  These dog would never pass w/ out showing in their little bubble.

At my club also has sv judges and very respected USA judges yet and they fail weak dogs, and after a year of training or shall i a rehearsing, the dog manages to pass.  even though it passed the sch3 its the same dog that wouldnt engage, its still the dog that had to be on its hom field w/ its home helper to pass.

im not saying that dogs that dont show at a regional level are weak or that a dog that show at the local level dont deserve eh title.  im saying that there are lots of dog that could not pass a sch3 if the odds are not stacked in thier favor.  And those dogs should not share the same company or title as dogs that can go to a trial 8hrs away and pass w/ out ever being on the field, dogs that will engage the strongest of helpers, dogs that are able to handle stress and still perform.

So IMO, the sch3 should be earned on a strange field w/ a strange helper. a field and helper you do not have access too. IF a dog can not handle the stress of being somewhere new then it doesnt deserve a sch3.  and laslty the judge will be able to tell how is a seasoned handler and who is not, you may loose a few points for handler help but at the end of the day dogs that do the routine will pass.

we all know that weaker and weaker dogs are being titled, i think its time to create a barrier to entry....

wscott

go to the usa seiger show or the nass and see for your self what is considered "pronounced" and tell us if most of these schh3 males are real, it's beyound critical mass

ive never been to seiger show but have been to a few national events and there are  few dogs that i wouldnt consider pornounced.

i remember when sch3 meant something, it takes alot of work  to get to sch3 and just think only those that deserve a sch3 should get it.   let the weaker dogs earn sch 1 and 2 but make the minimum standard for a 3 higher than a dog that has rehearsed the routine a hundred timed on their home field.

but thats just me....

wscott

Wouldn’t a mediocre protection score at a national for a dog that is weak be proof if the judge was honest and noted the lack of intensity indicate the dog was not truly fit for the SchH3 title

in the case of the sieger show, it becomes painfully clear that some dogs did not really pass and the titles were paid for

yep, i also think it would be harder for ajudge to help a weaker dog pass a 3