Proper age for starting protection work - Page 2

jason said "Nope.  I Wouldn't even attempt to have a Sch 3 on a 2 - 2 1/2 year old dog."

was wondering why not? 

my female and her sister are both sch 3.  one just over 2, the other 2 1/2.   pushing it a little, maybe, but they are some of the most trainable dogs i have seen.  greatest scores, no, but now i have time to go and clean up the little things.

john

In my opinion at around that age the dog is just starting to fully mature.

John, Why not get the training right the first time instead of having to go back and fix problems that were made from rushing the dog?

John and Jason,

You both bring up some very good points! 

  Come on folks, don't be shy.  This post is about learning and seeing different perspectives.  I am sure there are quite a few people with different ideas to share.  

  As I said before, all comments and ideas are welcomed.   

jason,

even the top compition dogs are in constant training.  fixing small issues, brushing up on imperfections, keeping the dog fresh.  why not get the titles early?  sport folk like me are in a constant state of training.   i never said i had to go back and fix problems,,except for that last out on the courage test, but that was the first time she did not out and her second sch3,, just clean a few things up.

john

Oneof the things that you need too look at is the quality of the helper, and the dog. The helper must be good at what you are doing for exampe a good sch helper does not meen a good PPD/PSD dog helper and vise/versa. Aslso the dog determines the speed of training and the type of training. I have seen dogs at 15 months with more fight, defense and power than a lot of 4 yr old sch 3. You also need to find the bloodlines that fit your training style and agenda. High prey no fight not good for PPD/PSD, high fight, high defense strong dog not good for sch(normal handlers). I know people that condition young dogs not to be afraid of movements and behaviors the resemble defense and soon. They play rough with the young dogs, lot of stick work around the dog and then on the dog and soon. Well thats my 2 cents.....

I started my last two pups the day after they got off the plane

I start them as soon as they are able.

John brings up a good point about letting the dog tell you when they are ready for what advancement.

If you have a good pup and an experienced decoy, there is no reason you can't start immediately.

By the same token if you have a well bred dog, you can wait and let him grow up a little because the genes are there.  I think it's six of one, half dozen of another.  It depends on the dog, the handler and the decoy.  I do think you have to be careful  not to let a dog get locked in prey.

I have had pups  4 months old gripping and showing all the right stuff however with such a young dog  comes limitation they can only give you as much as their maturity allows  so  If lets say a 4month old looks awesome    I will work the pup once a week maybe even every 2 weeks  about 8 months old I put it up for  one to 2 months  because  we only can demand so much from a young individual.

Then on the flipside  slow maturing lines    I don't even attempt any bitework until 12 and above months

I really thing this depends on the individual dog ,.

The 12 month plus dog once the light comes on   it is on and no break is reqired  just good training ;))   The younger counterpart  needs to grow a bit to continue  so  .

I of cource imprint the pups   genetic good grip is rewarded through play   with the handler   not a stranger such as the helper :))

so neither way is really a wrong way ...........reading your pup or young dog now there a handler can go wrong pushing a dog to do more then his maturity allows . Any good trainer reads their dog and proceeds accordantly

Pia

jason said - "In my opinion at around that age the dog is just starting to fully mature."

and i have to agree with that.  there are a few dogs that do mature very quickly and can attain titles by 2 or 2.5.

but there are a lot more dogs that mature later and if pushed too hard and too fast, will develop big problems.

i don't know what the big hurry is all about unless people are eager to breed or maybe they want to get a title

on the dog so they can sell it.  maybe someone can enlighten me.......what is the big hurry?  why do so many

think it is essential to have a dog titled at 2 - 2.5 yrs?

pjp

Firstly ,you ask a question then you give the answers

But not to nit pick so to speak, over here in Belgium they start serious work with them at about 12 months of age, but the start begins as a Pup as soon as it leaves its mother, the usual playing with a little ball or a piece Od sack, as it gets older let it carry a small tug about and so on in stages as it gets older , bigger and stronger

My  8 month old Pup Goran is on a large tug he is kept on a tight line with me standing in one position, not moving at all

then the Pakwerker throws the tug several yards away but in line with the pup and gets the pup going then he picks up the Tug and comes into the Dog to let him grab the tug but the pakwerker does not let go but taunts the pup to hold on to the Tug

This is done several times then the last time the pup is released and he goes for the tug and bites, the pakwerker holds on to the tug and again makes the pup hold it then i pick up the line and run the pup back to the car still holdi ng the tug in his mouth

Older 14 month Old Fred is just starting to come to the Hide with the Pakwerker in it and Barking he has a strong Bite and is going well in protection but they never rushed him