Livers and blues - Page 2

Yes, both liver and blue (or more correctly, dilute) are recessives and if both these occurred together in the same dog, a lilac GSD would be possible, as in the Weimaraner or isabella Dobe.

Black pigment is the eumelanin (dark pigment) in its natural form, the 'wild type' as found in the wolf which serves to give the best protection from the elements.  Dogs with blue hair are prone to skin disorders such as Colour Dilution Alopeacia as Cate has mentioned, while liver hair lacks the strength of black.  Liver (aka brown, copper, chocolate etc in other breeds) hair tend to break and sunbleach much more so than black.  It's no coincidence that many seabirds have black wingtips to give best protection in a harsh environment.

I've heard many tales of breeders in various breeds not liking blues and livers for various reasons, often associated with health.  One wel known 'Husky' worker saying that it actually affected performance.

As for temperament, the only reference to livers I can think of is a Labrador study (in USA, one of the veterinary hospitals I think) collated data on temperament and colour and it was found that chocolate Labs were least likely to be presented for temperament problems, and yellows were most likely.

Another effect of liver and dilute is that it doesn't just alter the hair.  The skin and nose pigment also changes from black, and the eyes are lightened too.

 The other "color correlation" is with the Dalmatians.   The standard calls for black or brown spots, but lemons (yellow spot) were also produced.   The Dals have a serious problem with deafness, but the lemons did not carry the gene.  Unfortunately, the breeders did their best to irradicate them anyway.  Doomed the breed.

Well no, not really Mystere.  Colour related deafness in Dals is entirely due to lack of pigment .... there is no specific gene for it.  The white areas are where the pigment is missing and if the pigment is also missing from the inner ear, deafness will results.  The colour of the spots in Dals (or any other breed) has no influence on the likelyhood of deafness.

There in only one Blue Champion on record only.

Hoobin's gray boy.

This is from way way back, but anyhow I thought I'd try and see if I can find the pedigree.

Livers and blues have croped up in the progeny of various lines, however it was custom to sell

them off and pets and never breed or show them.

They are not as rare as you think.

Infact in show lines they are very common, because the lines are getting so tight all of the genes for livers are coming to the surface more often.  and really in the working lines as well but not as often as the show lines.

Is it me or does this thread seem to be a spin off of another .    We were discussing the same stuff in the thread about "liver puppy in database ad"  .         I feel that we lose so much of the good discussion and I myself don't feel like repeating

Same thing happened with all of the other threads based on the same subject.   

As I said in the other thread, I suspect it is still common practise with many breeders to cull (kill) blue and liver pups. That way, no one knows your bitch and the other pups is carrying the gene.

I have always wondered why this dog was not disqualified because he was a blue
GSD, someone had just as well brought their white GSD to that show!

From what it said on the website re. the blue dogs, blues and livers were allowed in the show ring until fairly recently. Whites were not.

 Wasn't Blue Boy handled by a long-time, top handler?   That may have had a bit to do with his placement?

Does anyyone have a color picture of these two colors?