Would you line breed on this dog? - Page 2

Zahnburg, Thanks for the post - i was just about to post the same thing.

Sea Echo There still appears to be confusion in what you appear to be asking . First of all Fear is a Grandson of Darro not a son. Is your bitch's pedigree on the db. It would make answer the questions a bit easier.

On the face o fhte questions above you seem to want info on the advisability of linebreeding on 1. Sagus 2. Mink and 3. Lindenhallen dogs. My understanding is that Sagus was a well respected dog and certainly has been linebred on many times. Re 2 & 3 my understanding is that as in all things in dogs only more so you better darn well know the dogs involved , their capabilities , talents and foibles before undertaking that particular linebreeding.

My real concern here however is that the wrong question is being asked and thus no useful information in the end will be gotten. I am a great believer in knowing and studying what I call the Back 40 meaning everything behind the 4th generation because I personally believe that what is massed there can affect the present ( usually has a way of jumping out and biting you in the ass). The problem is that you can not consider linbreeding in a vacuum. You need to know what the dogs produced and IF they AND their descendents passed on the trait(s) that you are hoping the linebreeding will bring into your breeding. If they did not it is just so many names on apiece of paper. For a better discussion of this with some links to educational information that you may find helpful see my previous posts and Agar's on the thread "when looking for a dog" which is here http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/bulletins_read/143682.html#145011

HOWEVER before you even get to considering that and/or any linebreeding FIRST you must look up from the paper and have a clear understanding of the two animals in front of you that you intend to breed and what they bring to the table. Here is where I have some real concerns from the information that you have given us. You state "My goal is pups with tracking and/or SAR potential.   My bitch is not suitable for Sch. or police work.  She's a little too soft" . In previous posts you have expressed much concern about your bitch's temperment categorizing her as sharp ans more like a wild animal than a dog. To me that is a whole world away from soft . Either way however there appears to be ample space for concern re her temperament.

So my first question to you is what makes you think this bitch is breeding quality. Not all dogs are and we need to assess each one individually. How old is she? You say she is not suited for Sch or police work but you can start with and should at a minimum be able to put a BH on her which is merely a measure of some basic societal graces and a bare minimal evaluation of her soundness in life. Have you at least put a BH on her - or will her character prevent her from passing that?  Next you hope to produce working dogs from her but what proof is there that she herself possesses working capability? One needs to have it to pass it on. USA now allows you to get OB1,2,3 and Tracking1,2,3 titles as well as a FH w/o a Sch degree. Has she shown her working or tracking ability in any of these or by getting an AKC obedience ( not Rally or CGC) or tracking title?

IF you have not proved your bitch's working ability and soundness my next question to you is what makes you think that a handler of a SAR dog would  interested in a puppy from this bitch. SAR dogs are not a "lesser" version of a Sch dog in fact many are also Sch dogs. SAR dogs need a very high level of work, pack and obedience drives as well as being very sound in character and temperament and very clear headed. When you say that you hope to breed SAr dogs do you have a clear understanding of the drives they must possess and how those drives are used? Does you bitch possess these drives? If not what about her makes you think she will produce them? Please understand I am not being rude or judgemental of your dog. I do not know her or you or what capabilities either of you posseses. I am asking hard questions however because they are the questions that must be asked and answered before ANY animal is bred.

Finally, assuming that your bitch does possess the desired characteristics and traits this process then needs to be applied to the stud dog. Fear is 6 years old, only has "prelims" and apparently no independent evaluation of either his temperament, character or working ability ( No BH, TT or any working title). His breeder claims her puppies are bred to SV standards and yet there seems to be large pieces of that equation missing. I understand that this is the US and anyone can breed anyway they choose. Fine but  she should not claim to be breeding to a standard that it appears she sneers at since she disregards even the most basic elements of it. So assuming your bitch does rise to the level of being worthy to breed is it not prudent to find her a mate who also meets that standard?

It will be far more helpful to you to answer  these questions about your bitch and her partner and better yet about their parents before you concern yourself about linebreeding since the impact of these 6 individuals will be far greater than any linebreeding. Also remember the bitch brings more than 50% to the table because she raises the puppies. If she is sharp or shy the puppies will be influenced by and learn from her reactions to the environment.

We are working toward her CD right now, and hope to also complete a CDX later.  No Sch. clubs anywhere near me, even though I don't think she's suited for Sch. anyway.   She is currently 16 months old.  I know there is a tremendous amount of research I have to do, and all of this information is a maze.  I am trying to research every dog on her pedigree, and  the last thing I want to do is to cross lines that do not mesh well together.  Her temperament has improved quite a bit, although she is still suspicious of strangers and keeps her distance, she will accept new people after she sees them on a few separate occasions.  Sounds like I still have tons of research to do. .  . .

what is you females FULL name so that we can look her up on the PDB?