What line is smarter - Page 2

Very few dogs are not smart.

Some are just not trained.  Some are just not raised properly and given the opportunity to have their brains flourish (constantly in the kennels, chained, etc).

I believe most dogs of most breeds are just like most people.  Give them a chance to flourish and they will, with proper education, health and opportunities.

A child that has the ability to become the next Einstein may be languishing in a factory in China, or being beaten everyday by a drunken father, or not being nourished because of a crack head mother.  You have to have opportunity to succeed.

Having said that, I also do believe that there are "slow" people and "slow" dogs, no matter what you do with them.  But, generally, they are pretty much all equal.  The differences being very small.  I have had absolutely brilliant Dobermann's and Chihuahua's, and also have had not to bright mutts, but in general, all breeds and mixes are about equal.  IMO.

If you are talking smarts between MALE/FEMALE all lines included,  I would bet my life that most would say FEMALES! They are sharper, and learn quicker then a male, where as the males do have the smarts, but are slower maturing, (BODY AND MIND),but eventually  do learn. They think with their pee pee's!

Dawn

It's winkyyyy, not pee pee, LOL. 

Different lines have different winkyyyy's.  There are some that fit into the "standard", some over and some under.

But, you are right.  All males think with them.  Cool thing is, dogs don't care what they have.  They are just glad to "have".  Bitches don't seem to care either.

LMAO............ nuf said.

Lines are too broad a generalization. It's more of an individual dog trait. Having said that, descendants of Racker Itzal are well  known to be a bit "smarter" than the average GSD. Racker was himself famous for his "intelligence". It shouldn't be a suprise. Kids with high IQs tend to have parents w/ high IQs. It's not the only factor but it can definitely be inherited. But it also depends on opportunities you give the dog to think for himself. Herding is an excellent venue for this because most of the time the dog has to figure things out without commands from the handler.

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/226.html

it is purported that odin tannenmeise was possibly one of the most intelligent gsds that ever lived.  after having two jeck grandkids, jeck being an odin son, i would have to say that their uncanny intelligence had to come from somewhere so i would be very reluctant to argue this rumor.  now, i am not trying to say they are/were superior in any other way.  these dogs definately had some issues.  but, you were asking about intelligence and that is what i am referring to----only.

pjp

Can Genetics play a role in talents such as tracking?  I have trained entire litters in tracking and without fail one or two of them will out perform the rest of the litter. Is it intelligence, drives (stronger food drive) or just in the pups genetics? 

LOL Do right and fear no one

Willis is helpful here.  First, intelligence is multi-faceted, so it is much easier and more sensible to talk about something narrower than "intelligence" so broadly.  A proclivity to make eye contact, to solve spatial problems, to herd in an arc, to bite and hold on -- these and others like them are the traits we can define and measure and a dog can inherit.  General intelligence broadly defined is almost impossible to define and measure.  Second, even these well defined traits are only 5-15% heritable, surprisingly!  The studies reported by Willis shocked me, I know. (An interesting sidelight is that the dam really matters more in temperament because she passes along nerve in the nest.) 

So even if sire and dam haves pecific intelligence/trainability traits, there will be a variation in the litter, much less the line.  It really makes sense to just accept that the intelligence you want in a dog is going to vary so much by breeding, by line, even by breed, that you just have to focus on the individual.  Many breeders, especially of non-working breeds, it seems in my experience, would rather this not be true, as they would prefer you trust their breed and breeding and consider every pup equally valuable, but if you really care about intelligence of any specific type, you need to test the puppies and hope for the best.  Knowledge of the parents and pedigree, even deep knowledge, actually cannot get you very far at all in predicting the intelligence of an individual dog.  (Those of you who know college level statistics know that this does not mean that one cannot say that a breed or line is smarter than another on average -- surely working dogs are smarter than others -- but this does not mean you can count on a smart dog by picking a breed or even a breeding.)

In the end, the variation within a litter, and certain in a bloodline, is so big that dumber puppies in the best lines are less bright than smart puppies in dumb lines.  Furthermore, if you need a combination of multiple intelligences for your purposes, the odds get rapidly smaller that you will just happen to find them in a single individual.  The more complex the behavior you want, the more thoroughly you must test the puppies -- or you need to be willing to take your chances.

Ask breeders many questions and if they can't really discern one pup from another in intelligent and detailed ways, don't buy a pup if you care a  lot about intelligence.  The breeder's eye is at least as important as your own testing.  And both are needed to have any hope of finding especially "intelligent" dogs.